This is a transcript from a recording I made a couple of weeks ago with a guy in his 50s who signs on at a North London jobcentre. This man has been unemployed for more than five years. He talked about the reasons why he’s had trouble finding work in the last five years – in general and through the work programme.

One of his problems is literacy. He finds writing a particular challenge. He struggles to spell properly without help. His job application forms are messy and often incoherent because of that. The basic aptitude tests that a lot of companies put people through these days as part of an application for work are beyond him. He never had to sit those sorts of tests when he left school to work at 16.

I meet quite a few older people who are on jobseekers’ allowance and who say that they have trouble reading and writing. A number of times, people have asked me to fill in their forms, or help complete their Claimant Commitment paperwork (this guy, for example. I accompanied him to a group Claimant Commitment meeting at his jobcentre earlier this year. He left the room when it came time to fill in the Claimant Commitment forms. It became clear when he tried to fill in the forms that he just couldn’t spell). It took me a long while to work out that people wanted help because they weren’t able to read and understand the forms. I didn’t realise how widespread these literacy problems were until about 18 months ago, when I started to talk to a lot of people at jobcentres who’d been out of work for the long term. I have wondered sometimes how many people are eliminated from the chance of work that they want because they struggle to read and write. I also wonder what sort of effort work programme providers put into helping people navigate these problems.

One to think about.

The man in the transcript began by talking about the work programme (he’d been sent on the work programme four times):

“Basically, sod all they did. All they did was sit you down, try to help you use a computer – but they walked away. I did job search on the boards, looking for jobs, talked about silly classes. That’s it. They didn’t do an awful lot. It was rubbish.

“I went [for a job as a warehouse packer]. I thought it was like a warehouse, but they wanted you to do a massive test for hours just for packing plants in Cricklewood. Really, I should have got the job just packing the plants, but they were making life so difficult for simple things. I had to do an English and maths test – and nah, it’s not worth it, because you’ve got to sit down and at the end of the day, you’re not going to get the job anyway. You’re not going to get it. They want you to use the till. I just wanted the job like packing the plants in the warehouse. I could use a till, but you had to do it [know the names of the plants] with the plants… it was too hard. If it had been just doing the warehouse like packing, then that would have been all right. I would have been fine. It was just making life very difficult for a simple job.

“That was from [the work programme]. I went there. A couple of places I went to, but some places [potential employers] just mess you around. They never got back to me.

“I went to a nursing home in Enfield which I really should have got in there, because it was just a simple kitchen assistant job. I should have had that job in that nursing home. No – the reason they give me was Oh, there were some mistakes in the application form and the spelling and all that. But I really should have had that job in the nursing home. It was a very simple job. Enfield. It was not very far. I went there really early as well…I should have had a permanent job a long time. [It was just] a few mistakes in the application form. Basically, it was washing up, helping making the sandwiches, preparing the food – sort of job that I’ve done for years. That’s why I was very angry. I should take action. A couple of mistakes and they don’t give it to you just for that. You know – basically helping out with food for the elderly people. Their lunch and their breakfast, which I should be doing. I should be working there for a long time. It’s ridiculous.”

That anger and frustration is important to note. Apart from anything else, I think that anger and frustration might have had something to do with the comment that this guy made next [we talked about the refugee crisis]:

“Syria people coming here – it’s wrong. It’s overcrowded (here). There’s nowhere to put them. British and English people can’t get jobs, or flats, which they should have had, long time. Got to be putting your own people first. If, for example, British and English people went to their country and they had no house, [no] jobs, not a rich country – no British person would get a house or job, nothing, none of them. Basically, they get nothing. They should be put back where they came from. They should keep out and let their own governments sort it out. Don’t interfere. The problem is like a stray cat. Pick it off the street and then suddenly, you’re a soft touch. When we had that other bitch in – she was so hard, she wouldn’t allow it. Margaret Thatcher. She was hard, that one. This one has got no backbone, no spine. Yeah [she did the right thing] where that’s concerned. It’s too much. I don’t mind if they have a few, but when they have so many, there’s nowhere to put them. There’s nowhere to put somebody else. You’ve got your own problems to sort out. The whole thing is stupid. Sad about the kids though. No kids should be born in poverty, suffer and die like that. That’s disgusting.”

Frustration, lack of opportunity and hatred, you know. I know that people say I under-think these things, but I suspect that they’re connected.