This is the fourth article in my series with a frontline council homelessness and housing officer who has worked in housing offices across London and Greater London for 15 years.
There’s a full transcript from this interview at the end of this post.
In this article, the officer explains how basic human dignity and any notion of safety or comfort have gone by the wayside for homeless people in austerity.
The erosion of these basics speaks volumes about society’s real opinions of people in homelessness and hardship. We do better by our dogs.
The officer says that at one council recently, pregnant and sick and disabled homeless people (one person just had major renal surgery) were given cheap airbeds (which didn’t always inflate) to sleep on in temporary accommodation, because there were no proper beds.
There was nothing in the way of furniture at all in these places. Giving homeless people an airbed to take to the accommodation had just become par for the course. Cheap airbeds which often broke were considered good enough, even for people who had trouble moving around and standing up:
“Some woman who was like seven months’ pregnant. You know – she was enormous, because she had this huge big baby in her belly. She was given an airbed to pump up… There was some old guy who’d had an operation. I can’t remember what the operation was – I think it was a kidney operation…? or something like that. He’s given this airbed to pump up.”
The officer also talks about a disabled person being placed in temporary accommodation in a split-level flat in London where the toilet was upstairs and couldn’t be reached by that person. The disabled person had to use a commode downstairs in the main room before a complaint was made and alternative housing found:
“The bathroom’s upstairs and they [the tenant] are like, “well, how am I supposed to use that? I’m in a wheelchair…. [I suppose] they’re [the council is] like, “well, you know, get a commode… shit in a carrier bag…”
So it goes these days, the officer says. Councils place homeless people in any accommodation that serves the two basic purposes of housing people in immediate need and getting them out of the office fast:
“It is just the fact every council is scraping the bottom of barrel a lot of the time for TA [temporary accommodation]. I think a lot of the time, they [councils] just put people in shit and just hope they don’t complain. If they do complain – okay, we’ll do something about it…but we will wait until they do that [complain].”
The officer says the airbeds situation came about because the council rented blocks of empty flats from landlords who bought flats to let out for as much money as they could get – but spent nothing on making the flats habitable.
The officer says that in the past, when there was more money around, councils would put in place programmes to make sure temporary accommodation was furnished:
“The council might say, “give us a ten-year lease on these and we will put some furniture in them, or something,”
but in austerity:
“Now, it’s just money-saving – like, “fuck it – we’ll just take it as it is and give somebody an airbed…These were really cheap airbeds, so you would get people coming back the next day saying, “this airbed didn’t even…it’s got a puncture, or the pump don’t work.” So, they spent last night sleeping on some half-inflated airbed.”
Full interview transcript:
“You get [homeless] clients coming in and they’re like, “I don’t have any furniture. I’ve been renting privately and everywhere I’ve rented, they’ve been furnished places.”
You’re not going buy furniture, are you, if you’ve been living in a furnished place, so you haven’t got no beds.
To get around it, some councils are using airbeds – so, [they] give the [homeless person] an airbed to blow up. So, [we ask] “how many people in your family?” [They say] “There’s five members.” [We say] “There you go. There’s five airbeds.” Luckily, they [the airbeds] got a pump with them. They’re not the ones you have to blow up with your mouth.
Pissed off, is the word I think. People weren’t very happy – like, “what the fuck? I get an airbed? That’s what I’ve got a to sleep on – an airbed.” These were really cheap airbeds, so you would get people coming back the next day saying, “this fucking airbed didn’t even…it’s got a puncture, or the pump don’t work,” so they spent last night sleeping on some half inflated airbed.
Some woman who was like seven months’ pregnant. You know – she was enormous, because she had this huge big baby in her belly. She was given an airbed to pump up… There was some old guy who’d had an operation. I can’t remember what the operation was – I think it was a kidney operation…? or something like that. He’s given this airbed to pump up.
I think there is this kind of expectation… people say they’re going to rent somewhere for six months, they expect there will be furniture in it. You don’t want to pay to put, you know, fitted wardrobes in it for six months. So there are kind of practicalities to it.
They’re kind of blocks that some developer has bought and decided, “this is how it is.” They just buy these flats empty and rent them out empty and that is all there is to it – like, “why would I want to go around buying furniture for…[homeless people]? There’s no need.” It doesn’t make any difference to their security now, so I think as long as there’s an oven and a fridge in it [not always] – that’s all that matters, running water, somewhere to put an airbed…
They [homeless households] may expect [councils to help provide furniture], but there isn’t any obligation to… most areas have some kind of place that sells cheap secondhand furniture, specifically for those purposes – for people who are unemployed and that, you know….I’m sure you must have heard of them. So, usually you get referred to them – here you go, you can buy yourself a three-piece suite for sort of £30 or something that has a dog sleeping inside it…
I don’t think it’s the fault of the [homeless] clients… they’re just going from a place where they didn’t have to buy furniture to a place where they do need furniture and they’re not going to have it, so it’s obvious.
There was a time when the councils and the agents would have worked more together and said, you know, “we want these units – let’s furnish them,” and there would have been some kind of programme to do that, sort of, whether the agents paid for it, or the council paid for it. The council might say – “we’ll take this. give us a ten year lease on these and we will put some furniture in them or something.” “Now, it’s just money-saving – like, “fuck it – we’ll just take it as it is and give somebody an airbed…
It is just the fact every council is scraping the bottom of barrel a lot of the time for TA [temporary accommodation]. That’s why they’re sticking people in wheelchairs in split-level flats and things. The bathroom’s upstairs and they [the tenant] are like, “well, how am I supposed to use that? I’m in a wheelchair…. [I suppose] they’re like, “well, you know, get a commode… shit in a carrier bag…”
I think a lot of the time, they [councils] just put people in shit and just hope they don’t complain. If they do complain – okay, we’ll do something about it…but we will wait until they do that [complain]. Let’s wait and see if they do that…it’s still that idea that it solves the problem for a few weeks…[placing people in bad temporary accommodation] kind of solves the problem on the day I suppose, yeah…
You get these regeneration schemes… You get these [tower] blocks where they have knocked down this estate and they have rebuilt it as new houses or whatever, and there will be one tower block left that they haven’t knocked down yet. Somebody will rent the flats in there. They use them for temporary accommodation.
You go to visit them and it’s really weird – it’s like something out of the walking dead, because you go into these flats in a tower block and there will be about six families left in it. You walk along the balcony – the walkway to the flat and you see all these flats boarded up. Then you see there’s one [flat] that someone is actually living in.
It’s really creepy and those people tend not to be happy. It’s really scary at night, because these things are empty. You get people breaking in and running up and down … it is like the walking dead or something. It’s like one flat on the floor….
You’ve got no neighbours… and also, you’re surrounded by a building site. You’ve got this regeneration going on, so every day you got like cranes and building works going on… [which is just] great if you’re on nightshifts.”
THE POINT IS THAT NOBODY IN HOUSING NEED SHOULD BE GOING INTO TEMPORARY ACCOMMODATION IN THE FIRST PLACE. THEY SHOULD BE GOING STRAIGHT INTO COINCIL HOUSING WHERE THEY WILL STAY FOR EVER AND ANY FURNITURE THEY ACQUIRE THEY CAN KEEP, INSTEAD OF LOSING IT EVERY TWO WEEKS BECAUSE THEY KEEP GETTING EVICTED AND THEY HAVE NOWHERE TO STORE THE FURNITURE (that’s right, councils don’t help with storage, so people get evicted from private rental and LOSE THEIR FURNITURE). How WASTEFUL IS IT TO DOLE OUT AIRBEDS AND COMMODES WHEN FAMILIES COULD HAVE A HOME AND DECORATE IT OVER YEARS AND YEARS AND BUILD THEIR OWN FOUR-POSTER BED AND LIVE LIKE ROYALTY…but NOOOO we have to get evicted every ten minutes in order to keep the rich getting richer, so they can spend their £15,000 on their table at their Tory ball and whinge about how the poor have got wise and voted Corbyn.
WHY ARE WE PAYING DODGY LANDLORDS FOR SLUMS WHEN WE SHOULD HAVE PUBLIC HOUSING?????? That’s the point here. Airbed or no airbed. Cardboard box or sleeping-bag. Upturned hat or paper cup. Bin bag or shopping trolley… WHAT’S SO BAD ABOUT GIVING THE HOMELESS A PROPER PLACE TO LIVE??? REAL housing???
I can’t believe the Tories think we’ll ditch socialism and vote for airbeds and doorways. Why would we? Oh that’s right: coz the rich will be able to get richer. Very convincing, Prime Minister.
It just shows Alison they are starting to worry. You can only push things so far with all the cuts to services and all the rest of it.
Then the atmosphere changes and people start to think they have had enough. We have reached that point now I think.
It’s just beyond belief what is happening in this country today. The whole country has gone to the dogs. I’ve never known such a mess in all my life. The Tories have got to GO!
They’ll try to cling on Trev, just like they always do. You watch as we get nearer to the election they’ll start trying to soften people up by making a few small changes into a big deal. Then they’ll be going on about the economy and all the rest of it.
People not having access to a toilet in this day & age, for God’s sake. Living standards were better than this in the 1960s when I was a kid, the toilet was outside, but at least we had one! “A country that works for evryone, not just the priviledged few”, yeah right, pull the other one Mrs. May.
Yep
Trev, it’s like Cathy Come Home from the 60’s. Except now they don’t care if she comes home at all.
The modern remake might be called ‘Cathy Get Lost’, or ‘Fuck Off Cathy And Get A Job’.
(apologies if my foul-mouthed Northern sarcasm has offended the sensibilities of any middle-englanders who might be inclined to read the comments on this blog.)
Ha-ha!
Reminds me of a joke on the internet called “Republican Jesus”. Someone asks, “Is it true that I should give everything I have to the poor?”
Republican Jesus replies, “That’s ridiculous! If they don’t want to be poor, they should just get a job like everyone else!”
Language? Stuff the trolls.
Or, Cathy We’re Taking The Kids Seeing As You’re Homeless
I saw the real truth about staying in emergency housing. Back.in 2013 I was made to go into emergency housing because of abuses from my partner, I had a few back sacks packed with a few things that I grabbed. I was introduced to a lady support worker, she spoke down to me and give me no advice apart from to fill housing benefit forms out. She then handed me a key. I opened the door, I felt like crying it was dirty and run down . I walked in to bedroom the mattress on the double bed was covered in terrible stains. There was no mattress protection. There was old pot noodle thrown everywhere. The walls were dripping with brown Grease. I started cleaning. After day’s of scrubbing and cleaning it was finally liveable. But then I read the paperwork this flat was costing me £249.00per week plus gas and electricity. The council banked on the fact you got housing benefit. I had a meeting with my “support worker” who told me I wasn’t able to get any help. I was heartbroken wondered how I was going to survive. Later that day a young lady rang me from the housing department, she was wonderful, even though it wasn’t her job to help me get grants she helped me so much… I couldn’t understand how a support worker could be so unsupportive. But yet someone who worked in housing was so wonderful. I’d never delt with the system I had no idea what to do. She asked me to come to the council office and meet her. I did she introduced me to lots of people who offered grants.. and safety alarms. I got back and my support worker wanted to see me. She told me I’m entitled to nothing she looked in to it all. I couldn’t understand why she was doing this..I felt she had it in for me. I made a complaint on the advice of the council worker. I was told by the support workers manager not to take it personally, because he said she’s like it with everyone. I said well why is she doing this job? She’s working with people thats going through trauma and she just adds to it. I also found out she was telling the social worker who was doing custody report for the court , telling him lies about me and my son. One night it was late we were in.bed trying to sleep but we heard screaming and crying . I saw a lady curled on the floor and I heard you stupid bitch you’ve stabbed me. I told my son.to wait in the flat I need to go and help I phonec the police and walked out my door.. I saw a man stumple out of the flat at side of us. I tried to stop bleeding and stayed with him.until the ambulance arrived. My son.opened the door and he witnessed it all. I saw him and told him I’m coming I got in and held him. He was shaking begging me to take him home..I made him a warm sweet tea and read him stories. Then the police came and took witness statements.
My son told the social worker what happened. The social worker asked me so.I told him the whole story. He then asked the support worker. She told him it was contained in the flat and me and my son saw nothing told him were lying. I told him why would the police take statements. But he told me I was lying. I was heart broken.
He also told me I was not telling the truth about the abuse we suffered. My husband is a kind man. He said your son wont talk about the supposed abuse.. I said because it hurts him to speak about his dad he loves him very much. But I assure you my son tried to protect me , he used himself like a shield I knew it was time to leave my.son was at risk. I did the right thing for my son. He told me he was recommending to the court my husband have full custody. I asked him why the answers I couldn’t believe. He told me I wasn’t a fit parent because of my disability. I told him I looked after my son evey second from the day he was born how was I not a able parent. Plus he recommended that my son went to live with my abusive partner. I was devastated their was no way he was going there without me!!! At least I can protect him.. there was no way id let him. Live with him. He used to lose his Temper and throw things around. I.was going to be losing my son because of total lies. The whole system doesn’t work. I was having my son removed from my care all because I did the right thing and left my husband. For about 10yrs my husband controlling behaviour moved on to psychological and physical abuse and rape.
But that was fine.
When I left I grow strong and felt like a huge weight was lifted from my shoulders. Then they saw him who played the victim so well even started stuttering. He had his whole family calling me names.. but me and my son.knew the truth. My son said mummy its daddy who.hurt us mummy., but people treat him like you’ve hurt him. He played the victim.well. I wanted to prove to people I could cope by myself. My husband locked himself in the front room for 6 weeks . Me and my son got on with life. His parents did everything for him. I found it sicking how people who are professional couldn’t see through the act.
My son begged me not to let him.live with his dad. Your powerless against the courts there was no way I was letting my son return to a father who throw a yelow pages at his son for not completeing his homework. I son askd me to go home , I went to speak to my husband and told him we’d go home if he never puts a hand on my son.or me and if the abuse starts again we will leave.. When our son is old enough I will leave and our son will decide who he’ll live with. I told him I was coming home but not to be his wife. I was coming home so I.could make sure my son.was ok. It been the hardest thing in myife to try to forgive for a system that let me down and let my son down. Where was our protection…where was our support.? You complain against a professional they can split your life and family apart. I went back to my husband and they put my son on child protection register. Which I couldn’t understand because they were quite happy to send him back alone..but I understood because of my husband controlling relationship with me they thought I would allow him to abuse me again.
But one thing I did learn was how strong I was and how weak he was. I wasn’t ever going to let him control me again. Never and definitely never hurt me and my son.
Over the years my son been so angry with his dad, were I’ve tried to make them sit down and talk about how my son feels it’s important his feeling are validated for all he suffered. And he really did suffer .my son went through hell.
There is a safety net that is supposed to protect abused victims but all way through we were treated has liars. No wonder people don’t report rape and abuse. No body thought for one minute we were telling the truth.
I first told social services my husband was abusive they offered a holiday. What??? They said he was properly under a lot of pressure coping with my disabilities. For punching me they wanted to send him on holiday I refused to sign the paperwork… for years I’d covered it all up. But I finally started to open up. The day after my spinal surgery I received a phone call of my husband telling me if I didnt come home that day he was going to put my our baby in care. That day even though I was numb from the hips down I signed myself out of hospital and went home. My neurosurgeon was very concerned but I was so ashamed by my husband behaviour I couldn’t tell anyone, my baby needed me. The time I was on all fours in so much pain crying with pain my.husband decided he wanted sex I begged him not too…I cried please dont .
The time I was ironing and he was annoyed because my sister asked me to go for a coffee with my family. My child ran in to protect me. To stop him hurting me.. my child placed them self in danger.
The time we went swimming and we wanted a longer swim and he didn’t. He drove 80 mph through the back roads tthe children were screaming begging him to stop. I phoned 999 from my mobile to make him stop..I thought we were going to die. He saiid look what happens when you make me mad.
It was. a way of controlling us..
I was going back to a man who did then things I must be mad I thought. But the system left me no choice. There was no way I was sending my children alone I would protect them.
I know it sounds strange but he didn’t scare me any more his power was gone. I don’t know why he can’t control me anymore.
I’ve tried to move on anf forgive but me and my children should be living a totally different life to what we do.
But in my partners credit he really tries to keep his temper under check now and if he starts I just tell him straight. I’m not putting up with that again… and it stops. I hate what happened because I’m disabled I’m not a fit mother.but yet I’ve been thee for all my children.
It just shows you that these people who are supposed to support you and supposed to help and believe you how horribly wrong it can go. After my experience I can understand why women.and men of abuse stay and say nothing. Look were it got me nearly losing my children. All because I complained about the staff at emergency housing.
The police were no better.
I was told if I make a complaint against my.husband my children.would never see his dad again. How could I do thst?
I can’t my.children still love their father .
They will hate me.
So nothing was done. I asked what will.happen now I was assured they will go around and seee him and warn.him never to abuse me again.
They did nothing…
Today we are still together my husband tries constantly to keep his temper under control.and his not raised a hand to.me and apologised to us and we are working our way through issues. Sometimes I get so angry because of what we went through. I desperately try to forgive but I still.feel we were ket down badly. And I hope the support workers and the social workers Never suffer like we did. 2023 waa a year I’ll never forget for all the wrong reasons. I’ve learned strength comes from within and that is all you can bank.on.in life … yourself and you’ll be amazed what you can do…
But children need a loving home and a stable environment. They should never be witness to any sort of abuse.
If I wasn’t disabled myself would be so different.
I just hope ond day I fully forgive and come to terms with that awful period in my life.
Anyone who.is going through any of the issues I’ve mentioned. Know this you.are not alone and there are many of us from all different backgrounds and stories we share are traumatic and awful . Its not your fault !! Please stand up for yourself and find help start people snd get evidence record them . Thrn.its not your word against them you have proof. Thats important because people can be extremely convincing and lie.
I waa grateful to the judge who went against social service suggestion of giving my husband full custody. The judge asked us wgat we wanted .I said mon to fri and my husband the weekends . My husband said I can’t have my children fulltime neczuse of work..not bad to say he wanted full.custody…
We have our children and its our responsibility to look after them and I’ll do anything to take care of my children.
Why isn’t this disgusting state of affairs all over the mainstream news ?
Airbeds for sick people in condemned high-rises, leaving disabled homeless with no proper toilet facilities. This is all totally wrong and unacceptable in what is still the 6th richest country in the world. Yet somehow the government continues to get away with it. How ?
Am guessing it’s because Brexit is the only story in town. Seriously. There is no room for anything else. That’s the story which gets the clicks.
Personally I’ve never clicked on one story about Brexit, it bores me to tears. When youve hardly eaten for 2 days & are craving some carbs. you couldnt care less whether It’s a bag of croissants or a loaf of Hovis.
When people are in difficult circumstances it’s day to day survival that counts, more than politics, and the Tories take advantage of this.
If you hit Waitrose at the right time, you can buy bread for 5p. Otherwise perhaps it’s time to ask for a food bank voucher, Trev. Citizens Advice or GP surgery can get you one. You shouldn’t go for days without eating.
Or keep your pride and do some busking.
Or you could try bin-diving behind the shops and restaurants. It’s amazing what they throw away.
Some takeaways let you put your bill on a tab.
We don’t have a Waitrose, just Tesco, Sainsbury’s, and Aldi etc. I tend to use the latter plus cheapo stores like Home Bargain, BM Stores. Skips are well out of sight tho’ where you can’t get to them.
Not true. Top story on BBC News at Ten tonight was the NHS crisis. Then later there was a story about a man with learning difficulties who died because the NHS and social care stopped checking his bowel condition and stopped making sure he ate healthy food. He used to have help that was taken away and for that he died. It made me SO ANGRY.
I suspect that Brexit — as far as the negotiators on both sides are concerned — is largely about finding excuses to demolish the UK’s ‘welfare state’ and abandon our rights as ‘unaffordable’.
See, for example, “Jobcentre Plus – the UK’s public employment service – won plaudits for its performance over the financial crisis, but the story may be different if Brexit triggers an economic slowdown. The introduction of in-work services under Universal Credit will increase demand, while the Work and Health Programme will require jobcentres to take a more central role in the delivery of disability employment support services.”
Source: http://www.reform.uk/publication/the-future-of-public-services-digital-jobcentres/
Because they hide it, they take away your freedom of speech or even worse tell everyone your lieing or attention seeker. Looking to make trouble for social workers.
The system is totally corrupt.
I’ve seen disabled people spend their money what there allowed for care around £6000 buy jewelry from qvc. But people who really need that money aren’t receiving it. The only punishment they get is don’t do it again. When she told me what she’d done I couldn’t believe it. I thought she’d end up behind bars. But yet some can’t even.get a bed.
I saw many turn to prostitution in emergency housing. Your given £5.,45 to feed a family of four per day. They give you a food voucher at tesco. I saw young children walking around in there nightwear outside and in the coucil office for days. The children’s eyes looled full of sadness. Going into emergency housing is supposed to fill you with confidence that your safe. Believe your troubles have just started. The places they put you are dead through the day not a sound then around 8pm it starts the music and shouting screams.and it carrys on while 6 am then goes deathly quite again. I tried desperately to find help for people in those flats but know one listening. The professionals are covering it all up the government think there run smoothly. But alot of the staff just don’t care. They look down their nose at you. If you try and stand up to them they bully you.. the lady that ran our area was like a sister to hitler. I’ll never forget her and the damage she caused .
If the public knew there would be trouble.
The government is just like on the NHS. On the one hand saying they are not privatising it and just doing it anyway while we watch. As if people are so stupid the government can say one thing and do another.
Apathy is another thing too, and people just get used to things after a while.
I think one of the problems that homeless people have is that they are seen as outsiders really, by the Conservatives. Being homeless goes against the usual narrative of responsibility, home and family. There is this background dislike of people who have gone wrong somehow in their lives. Drink, or drugs, gambling or domestic violence, irresponsible parenthood etc. And these people are seen as needy, an endless black hole of financial and emotional problems. Hence a lot of these official attitudes, just like benefit claimants.
Homelessness can come from any circumstance. Not just from drug,drink,domestic violence and bad parenting.
You should go and visit emergency housing. I met a professor who had lost his home due to ill health. There were many with a very high standard of education. In fact the better your background the worse you get treated.
I was married for 15 yrs and suddenly out of nowhere domestic abuse stared. I owned my own home but yet ended up homeless while paying my.mortgage. I had to go to court to force him to leave , because he’d much rather his children live surrounded by drugs prostitution and people been stabbed then him find a sofs or stay with his parents. my.parents visited me my mum cried and said I never thought my daughter would end up here. I’d gone to art college and university but I ended up there. Unfortunately everyone and anyone can.end up there.. but I hope and pray to God no one does but I.know they will. Never judge peoples situations.
That’s very true John. It’s easy to present homeless people as drop-outs from society, and this is half the problem when it comes to attitudes from officials.
Problem is you’d have to have a totally different attitude from the government to solve the problem of the homeless.
Yes it would cost money, nothing can be done on the cheap.
But they would just have to find the money to invest in a national programme against homelessness.
And the thing is, no matter how many of them there are, the homeless by definition are on the margins of society. Most of them are not going to vote Conservative, and the government know this.
I agree. I think the solutions to these problems clash with the policies and values of this government.
HOMELESS PEOPLE CAN’T VOTE. No fixed address = no place on the electoral role.
So politicians don’t think they work for homeless people.
That and if they were housed and joined the electoral roll they’d probably not vote conservative so it’s in their interests not to enable somone to vote against them.
And still another 22 billion pounds of cuts to come, no doubt including social services. Not sure how this is making a society that works for everyone.
I Can’t see how the hell they can cut anything else, everything is already cut to the bone and then some. It’s horrific. Britain isnt broke, It’s broken, theyve broken it, and taken all the money for themselves. I think we’re going to see mass migration as thousands of people desperately attempt to get out of the country, stowaway, hitch-hike, smuggle, whatever, to escape this hell-hole. Some will head to Ireland, others may try to make it to Greece. Thousands more will die. This is Torygeddon.
When we leave the EU they will just be detained as illegal immigrants.
Unless by everyone they mean everyone in a small wealthy elite.
Then it’s true, society has been made to work for them. with bells on it.
That’s unbelievable, but I believe it. How in hell’s teeth did we let Osbourne and Cameron get away with this ?
As Kate has said, Brexit is a huge thing, and is going to provide political cover for a lot of highly questionable policies and actions.
My thoughts exactly Bruno. They’ll keep going with all of this cutting and reducing everything they can.
I always think it is interesting how the Conservatives operate on a sort of ‘opposite policy’ basis. Where they actively deny the reality of things.
Brexit looks like being a disaster according to the reports, denied by the government. Universal Credit is a disaster and won’t save any money, furiously denied by the government and the DWP. The NHS has had its most disastrous winter ever, because of underfunding, total nonsense say the government, and Jeremy Hunt. Who also denies he is the most unpopular Health Secretary in history. What’s the point of running a government if you just deny everything ?
Instead of a Prime Minister you could just have a Prime Denier, and a cabinet of Ministerial Deniers.
What’s the point? Anything to protect them from paying more tax.
No, they deny that too. They have never paid more tax in their lives. Indeed it would be impossible to pay any more tax than they do, and to suggest anything else is entirely wrong.
Everything the Government says is a pack of lies. DWP: “Making Work Pay” = blatant lie! Might as well say “Arbeit Macht Frei” on the Jobcentre door. “A country that works for everyone, not just the privileged few” – another whopper.
Unfortunately Trev people keep voting them back in, so they always get the last laugh whatever they do.
The ultimate lie – “We’re all in it together”.
We should try to pull that one with regard to our benefits:
“Oh, I’ll be far more productive if you just pay me more benefits. Experts have cobbled together some statistics to show you that people on higher benefits are ten times more likely to find a job and keep one than people who get a sanction.”
The benefits are far too low. One of the worst in Europe. Pension / sickness all too low, and the UN have said so. Not that this has made any difference.
I know. The UN haven’t even noticed the injustices of the way they calculate typical rents for Housing Benefit. £90 per week to live in Inner London? Good luck finding a broom cupboard for that.
And you could have Prime Denier’s Denial Time every week. Where the Prime Denier could deny everything.
But if the government party are Deniers, denying everything, what are the opposition doing ? Because obviously if the government are contradicting themselves by denying what they are doing in the first place, then what use is the opposition ? If you see what I mean.
Yeah, sort of. But if the government are denying what they are doing, while doing it anyway. Like the NHS.
Then it’s a sort of two-level thing isn’t it ?
So if you were in opposition, and the government were deniers, and you knew this for a fact. Then if you denied their denial wouldn’t that make it a positive. so you would be supporting them ?
And you would still have the problem of the original thing which they weren’t doing, but were saying that they were doing.
But surely if you were in opposition,and knew that the government were deniers. If you then supported the government, knowing that they were denying what they were really doing, you would only be supporting what they should have been doing instead of what they are denying, but doing in reality ?
Yes, but if you have the first government, the deniers who are secretly conning everybody by pretending one thing and then doing another. Then all their official policies must be false, and only the denials are true. But because they are only denials and not true policy, if you support the denials then this can’t be right. Surely the thing to do in opposition is not to support the denials, but only the policies. Because these are true, even though the government is not really doing them.
Gotta love the ministry of truth
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
So, Denier Of The Exchequer, First Denier Of State, Denier Of State For The Home Department, Denier Of State For Foreign & Commonwealth Affairs, Denier Of State For Exiting The European Union, Denier Of State For Defence, Denier Of State For Health, Lord Denier & Secretary Of State For Justice, Denier Of State For Education and Denier For Women & Equalities, Denier Of State For International Trade & Denier Of The Board Of Trade, Denier Of State For Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy, Denier of State For Environment, Food & Rural Affairs, Denier Of State For Transport, Denier Of State For Communities & Local Government, Lord Privy Denier & Leader Of The House Of Deniers, Denier Of State For Scotland, Denier Of State For Wales, Denier Of State For Northern Ireland, Denier Of State For International Development, Denier Of State For Culture, Media & Sport,Denier Of State For Work & Pensions.
I see that Tory SMP Jeremy Balfour has suggested that if terminally-ill people don’t die within three years they should be re-assessed for their benefits ?
You know somewhere the Tories are laughing at the working-class with this.
It must be some kind of in-joke surely ? Get them to vote for us, then treat them like dirt.
There was a notorious case of a DWP call handler who told a woman, “If you don’t die within 6 months, we’ll prosecute you.”
I’m glad to see that the overall tone of this blog has improved. If there is one thing
we don’t like here in Royal Leamington Spa it is foul language and mindless abuse.
Welcome back Tories! What took you so long?
This blog is under observation by the International Conservative Alliance. A non-profit group dedicated to the overthrow of socialism and the establishment of just and responsible society.
The words “Conservative” and “non-profit” are not normally seen together!
Well they’ll have you in their sights for suggesting we divide the country’s wealth by 65 million…
On a serious note, I can’t believe how hard it is for the Tories to understand why people support socialism and Jeremy Corbyn. Do they really expect us to vote for airbeds and doorways? They’re very good at giving us an “education” into the world as they see it (if anybody were to brainwash me, believe me, it would be the ones who say their opinion is the “truth” and everyone who disagrees is stupid, brainwashed or dangerous), but they are very poor indeed at grasping the fact they are not offering poor people a viable alternative to a vote for socialism. I’ve always been a socialist myself and I’m unlikely to change, but where is the logic in asking someone to keep voting for the party that keeps making them poorer and has destroyed their NHS (my doctor gave me the raw figures as to how many mental health nurses have been cut, despite the massive rise in the population) and won’t pay for their granny’s social care and so on and so on? Little Johnny’s school is begging for a few bob to offset the “evil” Conservatives and their “evil” education cuts. Mum is going down to the food bank because the Conservatives have cut her benefits. Dad has been in pain for a year because he can’t get a hip replacement because of the Conservatives and their cuts…
We are told that we need a thriving economy in order to pay for our public services. That sounds like a convincing argument. However, the economy has been booming at the same time as the government has been CUTTING the NHS – or not raising NHS funding in line with the rise in the tax-paying population. It seems to me that the Tories are undermining their own argument. For people to BELIEVE there is a link between economic performance and NHS funding, they would need to SEE funding RISING at the same time as our economy is performing so well. Otherwise, it just feeds into the narrative that NHS cuts are not about necessity at all and that the Tories are out to destroy our NHS.
@Tory Christian
‘Woe to those who decree iniquitous decrees, and the writers who keep writing oppression, to turn aside the needy from justice and to rob the poor of my people of their right, that widows may be their spoil, and that they may make the fatherless their prey! What will you do on the day of punishment, in the ruin that will come from afar? To whom will you flee for help, and where will you leave your wealth? ‘
Isiah 10 V.1-3
How can Tories be Christian? Jesus was a Socialist, obviously. Tories are Luciferians.
But Trev, look at the wealth of the churches. And the way that JC’s teachings have been used to support capitalism. Not to mention wars and crusades.
At least the churches use their wealth to feed the poor and shelter the homeless and campaign against the government’s austerity policies, even though they got told off for it by David Cameron.
Who uses Jesus to justify capitalism? Examples, please.
Us Christians left the crusades behind centuries ago, just in case some people on this forum hadn’t noticed that.
Well there is President Trump to start with, and all the American Republicans. They are all fond of Jesus and they believe he supported capitalism. They would be horrified to think that Jesus was a socialist.
I see what you mean about right-wingers equating their religion with their politics. But I don’t think any passages in the Bible can be held up as “proof” God favours right over left.
And the general corruption, and selling old pieces of wood and bone that were supposed to be holy.
And the repression of gay people for centuries. The deliberate supression of scientific advances, as with Galileo.
The gay question is a BIG area of contention between different factions of the Church of England. My church is very “liberal”, so we have lots of gay people in our congregation – and working for the church as well. Down the road, there are churches that take a very different view indeed.
I think it is a REAL SHAME that our religion has been at the forefront of so much discrimination against gay people over the years. It makes me cringe to see so many extremists in this area claim to be speaking for all Christians. I doubt they are even speaking for most.
There was a preacher on stage ahead of one of the USA’s candidates for Republican leader (I can’t remember which one, but he lost to Trump). This preacher was cheering because he found two OBSCURE passages in the Bible and he claimed they told him it is OK to kill gay people.
My view:
1) Judge not, lest ye be judged.
2) Thou shalt not kill – in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, which are central to our faith.
3) Our religion is meant to be about LOVE, not about hate.
4)What would Jesus do?
I think it’s REALLY AWFUL that it’s those kinds of “Christians” who end up on TV.
However, it is true that our religion has a lot to answer for in this area.
Also, the Church has been very slow to allow women to be bishops, perpetuating gender discrimination, long after this had faded from other areas of public life. Some church-going people still refuse to receive Holy Communion from a female priest (thankfully not at my church)!!!
Then there are unpleasant views about mental health. The latest flier I got from the Jehovahs Witnesses implied that anxiety and depression is caused by parents spoiling their children. Some branches of Christianity believe mental health problems are a sign of God’s judgement against us. Again, THANKFULLY, I have not encountered these views at my own church.
I didn’t attend church at all until I heard that there was church whose congregation had a referendum on whether to let their vicar keep his job after he came out as gay. They voted to keep him. That made me think that maybe lots of church-goers are just like me after all. It also made me realise that it is often better to be part of something (church, political party, pressure group…) and have my say, rather than vacating it and leaving it to the extremists to take on the cloak of speaking for high-profile organisations.
However, I do have sympathy for the view that the Church does not stand up against discrimination in many areas, so why take part in it?
N.B. No I don’t think gay sex is a sin. I think that we are all God’s children and God loves each one of us for being of the sexual orientation that He has created us to be. Gay, straight, bi, trans… I believe that we are all cherished equally by God.
Burt, yes the Church organizations (both CoE and RC) are very wealthy, but individual local churches are always hard-up and always running appeals and fund-raisers to mend the roof. As for using belief to support Capitalism, I can certainly see that where Protestantism is concerned, i.e. the P.W.E. which is why the country prospered during the Industrial Revolution.
I take issue with my church’s portrayal of itself as poor. They are swimming in money. Iphones for staff, £thousands to Calais…they own houses round here worth at least £half a million each, and then they let one sit empty for years. Every time I walk into the church, the under-floor heating is on far too high. Then they beg us for money to pay their bills. Sorry church, but poor you ARE NOT.
Meanwhile, I’m shivering in a studio flat in front of one bar of an electric heater, whingeing about the Tories on someone else’s “old” unwanted phone.
The thing that is GOOD about my church is that they USE their wealth to feed and shelter the homeless here and feed and educate orphans abroad. They don’t foster the politics of envy, like our current government do.
Quite a few Tories go to church, including the Prime Minister.
I know several Tories who go to my church. It does make me wonder how they can call themselves Christian and yet talk to me about how they support policies like cutting people’s benefits.
Tories love churchgoing, and all the ritual that goes with it. The respectability, being seen in the community etc. Law and order and everything right on earth as it is in heaven.
Same with the Royal Family, they love all the church and state stuff.
Alison, maybe they are just gullible and believe what the Tories tell them? they probably fully accept that Austerity is something to do with saving the economy and is absolutely necessary, which is of course is absolute nonsense.
Austerity has been a con Trev right from the first. And it’s sad that Miliband & Co. went along with it. Its taken years to get to this state, and probably take years to put them back again. How anyone can vote Tory I don’t know. They’ve got no idea of society, unless it’s to give themselves cheap labour. Even Thatcher said there was no such thing as society. Typical attitude.
One Tory from my church says he won’t sign up to church giving (standing order) because he’s not convinced the church will use his money for the right things! I’ve seen him put a fiver in the plate, though.
There is a vicar from Chelsea
Who alas is not very wealthy
Often he dines on communion wine
And curried bat from the belfry
I love curried bat, served with a few fava beans. Mmmmm.
Lot of small bones I always find with bat. Bit like trout really.
And the wings can be a bit leathery unless the bat has been cooked slowly right through.
I thoroughly recommend smoked trout. Best served cold and then mixed up with hot rice. Bones are a great source of calcium.
It’s suprising what you can find on the roadside really.I know someone who often goes out at night with a carrier bag and a torch. Rabbits, hedgehogs, couple of weasels one time. He nearly got a badger, but just as he was going for it this huge truck came along and squashed it to pieces. Shame really, you can make a nice casserole with badger, few onions and some potatoes.
If he can catch the mouse at our church, he’s welcome to eat it.
He mustn’t forget his vegetables, though. Trev’s a bit too far away to share his home-grown spinach, so I guess His Reverence will have to settle for the dandelions on our grassy verge – or what’s left of them, after our Lay Reader has harvested most of them for her tortoise to eat…
As a mouse can I say that I object to that last remark ?
It’s bad enough having to live in a draughty old church.
Last week I had to survive on a corner of old hymn-book, and a few crumbs of biscuit I found in the vestry. They’re a strange lot humans, every week they turn up here to sing together. Then one of them tells off the rest, then they all go away again until next week. And they call themselves an advanced species ?
Tortoise makes a nice soup, if you can’t get turtle.
Plenty of turtles swimming down the Thames every day…and tortoises roaming the deserts of Middle England. Every time you swear, they eat one.
Don’t forget your £20 ostrich egg from Waitrose (true product – haven’t tried it)
Unfortunately Alison the veg patch was at my previous residence, I don’t have one now. Though last year I did make good use of the Nasturtiums.
What a shame you lost your veg patch.
I do gardening for volunteering, but we don’t grow veg.
My block of flats has a communal garden, but there’s a gardener and a fastidious neighbour who complains because someone in the building has an indoor cat! I don’t think I’d get away with taking over bits of the garden for an allotment.
Hope you’ve acquired some food since Thursday?
If they put a small amonut on the Income Tax, they could solve the homeless crisis in a few years.
If you were a Tory which would you rather do ? Pay more tax, or ignore a few homeless ?
That’s a difficult one old chap. Can I think about it and let you know ?
Exactly! Why not? Oh, that’s right…Tories don’t like paying their taxes. They become envious of people on benefits.
Why don’t we total up all the wealth of everbody in the country, get a calculator and divide it all by 65 million ? Share and share alike. Now that’s the Christian thing to do.
Can’t see that going down too well in the Home Counties.
There is that bit about the eye of the camel though, if you have too much wealth. If they really believed in it they’d hand some of it over to the common people.
How about starting a Conservative Homeless Association ? So that anyone who is a conservative, and perhaps has fallen on hard times, through no fault of their own, or immoral behaviour, drugs or alcoholism, could be assisted into a home and new employment ?
Topping idea Hugh ! Perhaps they would benefit from a little religious instruction as well. Home economics, thrifty-living that sort of thing.
Most homeless people are NOT homeless because they waste money or can’t cook.
Most of the people who waste the most money and cook the least are not homeless.
Slum landlords are wasting public money on high rents for airbeds in empty office blocks. Blame them, not the weakest in society.
Oh, I see. So Labour-inclined homeless people have to put up with an airbed or a doorway, while the Tories protect only their own kind?
Churchill always maintained that the best argument against democracy was five minutes conversation with the average voter.
Best to talk to Freddie Fox and Churchmouse, then.
Ha ! You see what I mean about human arrogance ?
Just because I’m a mouse doesn’t mean I haven’t got an opinion too you know. Some of us have got to live in the world that humans have made, and I can tell you it’s not always easy. You are the noisiest, most selfish creatures on the planet. Destroying forests and whole communities of animals to put up your endless buildings and factories. You’ve poisoned the atmosphere with your smoke and fumes. And you kill other animals for food ! All of this blog is about people, does anyone here have any concerns about mice ?
Dear little Churchmouse, I was merely pointing out that the previous post was about VOTERS and you currently have no right to VOTE, so the previous poster could talk to you about politics without tainting himself with a conversation with a VOTER.
Yes, Churchmouse, I DO care about mice. I strongly oppose all those barbaric experiments carried out on mice in the name of “science”. I think humans should leave your species alone to munch on your morsels of cheese. I’ve signed a few petitions, but I haven’t taken part in any direct action in defence of your species (in case any shire-dwelling Tories read this and get the wrong idea).
It’s great to see the Tories speaking up in defence of non-human creatures for a change, even if it isn’t always easy to believe that they mean what they say.
I confess I am a fan of the cat, though.
Alison, how very kind of you to say so. You have restored my faith in human nature. I know it’s easy to be cynical when you are only a small mouse. But there are also many good humans who can’t abide mistreatment of animals. For which we are very grateful.
Indeed someone kindly left out a piece of what I think is called a sandwich near my mousehole the other day. Delicious, and made a nice change from biscuit crumbs.
I see that once again we are knee-deep in Tory Trolls on this blog. You might as well forget it guys. This stuff won’t work on here. A proud Labour supporter who looks forward to the day when the Conservative party is defeated at the next election.
Corbyn has no chance of defeating anyone, you can be sure of that.
The Conservatives will go on to victory in 2022, and we will make this country great again.
And pigs will fly…and a cow will jump over the moon in 2022.
Piers,
Could you explain to us whatyou mean by making this country great again, what is your definition of “great”, how would you go about achieving it, and how many more poor people do you expect to die in the process? How would solve homelessness? How would you solve the housing crisis? Would a “great” country still have the need for foodbanks? How would you make energy affordable? Would train fares be affordable? Would people be able to adequately live on either the wages or State Benefits they receive? Would a “great” country have a fully functioning NHS freely available to all who need it?
Great question, Trev!
A “great” country would have a functioning Social Security system, with a robust safety net, and Couuncil services would be adequately funded, as would tthe Police force. No Library closures, no foodbanks, no children living in poverty, and an equitable distribution of wealth not the o bscenedivision of today.
Yes, exactly. Spot on.
I should write a letter to my MP saying the same thing. I couldn’t have worded it better myself!
I’d LOVE to hear them try to answer your question.
BUT THE TORIES HAVE GONE VERY QUIET SINCE YOU ASKED IT…
It’s the same meaningless rhetoric as Trump – “make America great again”, just Nationalistic twaddle. God knows whatPiers is on about, maybe he means a Dickensian bbBritain with workhouses, child labour & kids up chimneys. Or perhap@s a 21st century. reinvention of the British Empire, he might think we should invade Argentina or colonize the Moon & enslave all the Clangers. Planet Tory is a strange & alien world indeed.
Ps. wish my phone worked properly!
Phone problems? Join the club!
They issue software updates to our phones that make them go slower, so that we will want to buy a new one.
A new iPhone costs £ONE THOUSAND!!!
The thing that’s great about your question is that it puts the Tories on the spot. Of course they’re not going to come out and say that they want children up chimneys and poor people in workhouses. So it forces them to explain what they think is good about what they’re doing to our country, without letting their true colours slip out.
Jeremy Corbyn could ask your question at Prime Minister’s Questions, except that no one would hear it because the Tories would drown him out with their usual mindless taunts about beards, jumpers and allotments. It’s amazing how many things are off limits among the wealthy elite. Jumpers? What’s wrong with jumpers? They keep the heating down and save the planet. Beards? Quite trendy nowadays. Allotments? Gardening is fun! It stops us sitting on the sofa. It cuts down on food miles. Knitting and agriculture would have been the mainstay of people’s employment if they kept themselves out of the workhouse two hundred years ago. It’s amazing that the Tories frown upon these things now.
Are you on Twitter? If so, you could submit your question to Jeremy Corbyn. Perhaps he’ll ask it at Prime Minister’s Questions.
(I can’t be bothered with social media myself.)
Nah, I’m not on Twitter, don’t do social media. My phone is about 5 yrs old & on the blink, runs słów, drops internet connection, crashes,wwon’t turn off, can take 5 mins. to wake up from sleep, often types letters in wrong order, ypes tcharacters instead of numbers like an exclamationmmark for a no. One or a question mark instead of a no. 9 sometimes. & pre-empts txt in Policji… Polish, won’t delete. Its a pain. & i m supposed to use this for jobsearch? What a joke.
My phone crashes all the time as well. It doesn’t like adverts on websites.
Sometimes it won’t turn off the way you’re supposed to turn it off. In that case, I hold down the power button and eventually it will shut itself off.
I turned off “predictive text” in the settings, so it doesn’t guess what I’m going to write. I just write out everything the long way.
Maybe you can change the language you speak in the settings as well?
My internet connection is dreadful indoors.
I hope you’re not paying the earth for your phone.
I’m with Three. 1p per megabite on pay-as-you-go, free help from a human being, 2p per text and 3p per minute of telephone call. I’d highly recommend Three.
So many people waste money on Vodafone. They’re dreadful. They rip off people who are too timid to switch to a different network.
Trev, we have no Aldi round here. There are a few Lidls, but I HATE Lidl. I go to Tesco and Sainsbury’s for some things, but they don’t make their bread so cheap at the end of the day.
It’s a question of vision I think, of Great Britain once again taking its place at the head of the civilised world.
Of a return to morality, standards and values in society.
A quiet acceptance that there is a given order to things, and that simply making trouble upsets everyone to no purpose. One can quibble over monetary details of course, and indeed no system is perfect. But we can’t have a society based on continual anarchy.
Tories are trapped in a pre-war fantasy land.
This is the cricket on the green and warm beer stuff again. In case you hadn’t noticed Piers , its 2018 in modern-day muticultural Britain !
Continual anarchy? That’s what we’ve got now, absolute chaos. No one said anything about wanting Anarchy anyway. I think most of us just want an end to this madness that the Tories are inflicting upon us. We all want to have a functioning Society, properly funded Public services, a functioning Social Security system, decent jobs, higher wages, decent housing.
Right on Comrade ! They can sneer all they like. They have had their day and soon be will be rid of them.
It doesn’t stop them trying, John. Especially after Theresa May declared she would “defeat socialism”. They think they can win us round if they try hard enough. Even though they are not offering people anything worth voting for, unless they have £millions they don’t want to give away in tax.
Kate, based on the number of trolls on here, you must have caused some annoyance with your articles. Good for you.
Weird world we’re in 🙂
Yes, they think we’re a danger to their comfy poor-bashing, tax-dodging consensus and they’re trying to brainwash us. Mrs May has pledged to “defeat socialism”.
The Tories have been all over the papers, TV and social media calling us dangerous Marxists, brainwashed by a cult and leading our country the same way as North Korea. The same **** they come up with on this forum. A Tory I know what telling me it was all true until we started laughing at him.
Yes, austerity is driving us all to our deaths, but they think they can persuade us to vote Tory anyway.
Tories tend to see their ideas as being patriotic. Queen and country etc. I’m sure a lot of people vote Conservative because they see it as being more patriotic somehow, which it isn’t . Look at the Royal Yacht for example, it was Labour did for that. It’s the kind of thing puts the royalists off.
Not the toffs, but the ordinary working class.
True that, some people will travel long distances and hang around for hours in the freezing cold just to get a glimpse of the royals.
Yeah thats dead on Malcolm. Tories I know ordinary working people they read the Sun.
Think that voting Conservative is kind of like being for the Queen. For the country too. Like being on Britain’s side in a war. Having a bit of pride.
But can Corbyn win ? Even now Labour are only polling level with the Conservatives. They should be miles ahead. Theresa May is only hanging on to her job by her fingernails. Brexit is looking bad. But there is not any great surge in popularity for Labour. Remember this with Miliband ? He talked the back legs off a donkey, but in the end of the day he just wasn’t popular with the general public.
Agreed. Labour should be miles ahead and they are not. Shouldn’t even be close by now. But it is.
Miliband offered no decent policies to attract a leftwing vote (they won’t get my vote by emulating the Tories) and the media did an hatchet job on him to put off joe public. Corbyn, as a real Socialist, will get the Left wing vote, and no one with any sense is going to vote Tory.
But is that the case Trev, or if you will forgive me for saying so, wishful thinking ? Corbyn can’t win if all the votes he gets are from the hard-left, Momentum, The Socialist Workers Party etc. The plain fact of the numbers is against him. You can’t make 2 plus 2 equal 10. British elections are won or lost on the mass of undecided middle of the road voters.
Unless Corbyn can tap into this, and this will include middle-england, ( many of whom voted for Tony Blair and gave him the landslide 1997 victory ), he is not going to win. They say that a week is a long time in politics, there are 4 long years ahead until the election. No disrespect to Corbyn but will he be a fresh and appealing candidate for the electorate in 2022 ?
Of course Corbyn will win, no one in their right mind is going to vote Tory after. what theyve done to thiis country. Polls Can’t be trusted anyway.
Yeah but Trev, with all due respect you can’t just take this for granted. I’m a party member, and I was there delivering the leaflets in 2015 door to door. It was obvious to everyone that Miliband wasn’t going to do it, and he didn’t.
Let’s be clear, I want Labour to win the next election. I want us to put right all the terrible things the Tories have done. But I don’t think the party is going about it the right way. And I’m disturbed by comrades in the party who seem to go around in a sort of trance where Corbyn is concerned. It’s like a sort of religion, if they believe in him enough he’ll win. I see a decent, honourable man, rather out of his depth, who is not the ideal leader. He’s not great in parliament, and he’s not very good at argument, and he often seems slow on the uptake. He’s not good at coming back with a smart response. He seems to have no real passion, no anger, when he should have. So he comes across to most people as rather a bland and indifferent figure. This is what is going to kill Labour in the election. And I know one thing, I don’t want to be walking the streets putting leaflets through God knows how many houses again for nothing.
Thank you for your hard work.
Would you have preferred Andy Burnham, then? Or Owen Smith?
Predict at your peril…
I think the squeezed middle is shrinking. I expect it will have evaporated by 2022 (if Theresa May even lasts that long).
I agree that left is better for Labour. But I think the media did a hatchet job on both Miliband AND Corbyn. The difference is that Corbyn is much more resilient.
But Alison, where is the passion, the sense of urgency with Corbyn ? He’s carrying on as if he has all the time in the world, as if the election is already won. Sometimes I can’t stand to watch him and I have to turn the TV off.
When May (or any of the Tories are on TV) I feel like putting my boot through the screen and hurling the TV through the window.
Yep, same here.
Yes, he’s boring. But I’d still vote for him because of what he believes in and what he stands for.
Boring is good if you’re running a country.
When he’s taking another parliamentary pasting you feel like getting in there yourself. Standing up and saying, ‘look you sit down Jeremy I’ll do this’, and then letting the Tories have it with some real arguments.
Corbyn is resilient like a punchbag is resilient.
Keeps getting hit, and just stands there swaying.
The Tories are so keen to destroy our welfare and public services that we’d need a boxing glove for leader in order to say anything in favour of ordinary working people. I’d say Jeremy Corbyn is a very good start, although I do wish people on the right would consider his human feelings once in a while, instead of behaving as if he really is a punching-bag.
Vote Tory? Vote Bully. Vote Corbyn? Vote for something better.
Labour need to start getting angry, and start getting urgent. Put some passion into things ! Already there is a feeling that they are sitting it out until the election, and then ‘by magic’ they are going to win. Face it people, Corbyn is not Merlin, and the way things are going for labour right now he would need to be a magician to win.
This is true John. Corbyn isn’t going to win with this turn the other cheek stuff. He just looks weak and hopeless. And boring. Like the guy in the pub that wants to tell you all about his allotment. It’s a complete turn-off.
Back to the allotment jokes, again. Shows Tories aren’t so green after all.
It’s like the hare and the tortoise. The Tories thought they’d be so far ahead of Labour at the last election that they wrecked their own chances at the last election with a really unpopular manifesto. They barely won and barely formed a government.
Yes but Alison, the Conservatives won and Labour lost, again.
That is the important point surely. Labour botched an easy win in 2015. Cameron had already written his resignation speech, but to his suprise he was able to tear it up and go for a victory speech instead.
If the polls are anything to go by, it will be neck and neck in 2022. There won’t be any room for stupid mistakes like that idiotic Edstone.
It’s interesting when you think of it, and goes perhaps to human nature, that Jeremy Corbyn seems to inspire a total devotion amongst a small group of people. Yet the wider public, and most of his own MP’s are mostly unimpressed with his efforts so far.
In 2015 we had a middle-ground leader, NOT Jeremy Corbyn, so our failure in 2015 is proof that Blairite leaders are not the future of the Labour Party.
I disagree with your description of 2015 as an “easy win”. It was only considered “easy” because the opinion polls were wrong, yet again. From speaking to friends and acquaintances, most of us knew that the public were not particularly inspired by Ed Miliband. I’m sure he was a very nice man, but I think there’s a lot more passion out there for Jeremy Corbyn.
Be something if Corbyn came up with a solid policy on Brexit. What the hell is he doing ? First he supports it. Then he still wanted the Customs Union. Now he’s half-supporting it. He needs to get round the table with Momentum and ask them what the Labour policy on Brexit is. If he can’t think of one for himself.
I don’t know, I couldn’t care less about Brexit, I just want Corbyn (when he’s PM) to Nationalize everything, scarp the Bedroom Tax, properly fund Local Government, increase Min. Wage to £15 per hour, increase JSA to £120 per week, scrap Universal Credit, put an end to all the useless Back-To-Work Scams (The Work Programme etc.) , abolish Benefit Sanctions, OR introduce a Unconditional Universal Basic Income instead. Also want him to reduce State Pension age to 55. Is all that too much to ask?
If he abolished the back-to-work scams, he’d save enough money to fund everything else you asked for!
Completely agree Trev, all those things are good.
Not sure about how much chance we have of getting them though.
Probably not much chance Deke. If Corbyn ever gets in he might go halfway towards doing some of those things, if we’re lucky. But at least Labour have set up a working commitee to study the feasibility of a Universal Basic Income. As for Universal Credit we’ll have towait & see, they might be forced to scrap it when they realize it Can’t be fixed.
Don’t give up hoping, Trev. That’s what the Tories want us to do. Vote blue or stay home.
Believe me, we can achieve something if we stick to our principles and vote Corbyn for leader and eventually for Prime Minister. Even if we lose the election, the level of support out there for Corbyn has clearly spooked the Tories, and that can only be a good thing for public policy into the future.
Does anyone know what Theresa May actually believes in?
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/what-does-theresa-may-actually-believe.html
That’s a really good article, Trev.
I wonder if the Tories have enough intellectual curiosity to read it, or if they’re still unable to move beyond mindless teasing.
Just think how they would bully you if you still had an allotment to talk about. I talk about my gardening all the time, but my friends and acquaintances NEVER tease me, like the Tories in the media, in Parliament and on this forum do to Jeremy Corbyn. Why would we vote for that? Even if I were inclined to vote Tory, I think the allotment-bashing would make me think twice.
That’s what’s so good about Jeremy Corbyn. He’s one of us. He goes on holiday where WE would like to go. He has a passion for gardening, just like us. He wears jumpers, just like we do. He abhors bullying and turns the other cheek, like we aspire to do EVERY day, whereas the Tories support turning the other cheek on a Sunday and then forget about it for the rest of the week.
The Tory elite who mock Jeremy Corbyn are like the bullies at school.
Alison, it’s time that Jeremy Corbyn stopped all this cheek-turning. There is a Russian drinking game, where two men sit down opposite each other at a table, with a line of vodka bottles between them. Each takes a drink of vodka, and then slaps the other man across the cheek as hard as he can. This continues in turn until one of them collapses unconscious or gives up the contest. An extreme example perhaps, but Jeremy have got to start showing some determination and tenacity.
Oh, yes, of course. I couldn’t possibly support Jeremy Corbyn now that someone compared him to a Russian drinking game…
NOT…
Ha-ha! Give up yet Tories? Cult, allotment, North Korea, Russian vodka….
Nope. Don’t care. Still love him.
Anyway, I’m a Christian, so I believe in turning the other cheek.
Momentum are far from united on Brexit, Robbie.
What we do agree on is that in/out of EU is less important than food-on-the-table issues like welfare, wages, NHS, schools, truly affordable housing… So we are more interested in Labour’s policies in those areas.
EU membership has no impact on food banks due to ATOS/sanctions, nor airbeds/doorways due to an aversion to building social housing.
The Blairites tend to get worked up about Brexit.
At my local party meetings now you’re looking at Momentum running it. Woe betide anyone who says a word against Corbyn. It’s like those religious people, the ones where only the true believers get saved, Everybody else can get lost for all they care.
Well perhaps they just want to avoid having a Centrist Tory-lite version of Labour, which is understandable. It’s not so much that they think Corbyn is so brilliant, just that he’s the first reeal Letie to come along in decades& they have to seize the opportunity while they can. Im glad to see Labour move back to the Left, i can finally vote for them again after Years of voting Green instead because they were more Socialist than New Labour.
My worry is that if Corbyn doesn’t win, and I hope he does, things are going to be so hard for so many people that it hardly bears thinking about. It’s all very well Momentum building it up with all this we can win, yes we can stuff. Like Obama .
But there is no real sign outside the Labour Party of any great Jeremy Corbyn revolution. What’s going to be the excuse next time when the Tories could be in power until 2027 ?
But by 2022 things are going to be that bad anyway that everyone will be only too willing to vote Labour to desperatelyget rid of the Tories. Think about it, how bad things are now but with more cuts to come, & full implementation of Universal Credit. We’llb
…(phone crashed)…we’llbtripping over bodies in the streets by then. The NHS will be no more. Thousands more will have died. Could be Millions of us dependent on foodbanks, Britain might even be in need of foreign aid. We are facing the greatest crisis since WW2 – TORYGEDDON!
The EU offered us foreign aid a few years ago because so many of our people were homeless. And Save the Children and other charities returned to the UK, saying poverty here was worse than overseas.
You’re right. The longer the Tories are in power, the wiser the public become to the evils they are imposing upon ordinary people.
I wouldnt put it past them to impose Martial Law by 2022 in a desperate attempt to stop Corbyn taking over. I t might be part of their Masterplan, i.e. the Fourth Reich. Population reduction is certainly part of their plan, That’s why they have deliberately killed so many poor people, and they will want to enslave the rest.
But will they Trev ? This is the trouble. It’s like betting everything you’ve got on a horse. If Corbyn can’t make it it’s going to be an absolute disaster for Labour. We’ll be back to the Thatcher years, but even worse. And then people are going to think, only natural, with another leader bit more aggressive, maybe younger, would we have won ?
If Labour lose again that might well be it for a generation.
Libdem territory.
Now Corbyn is like a horse.
I love horses, too.
Where is Henry the Horse? Has he got a view?
Or how about a female animal for a change?
(I think Churchmouse was gender-neutral, but I can’t quite remember.)
LibDems? No chance! They wrecked their chances under Clegg.
But they still might get on board in a Coalition again. Suppose it’s a hung parliament with Labour and the Conservatives both scraping for seats ? I wouldn’t like to guarantee the remaining Libdems not going back into government with their old friends the Tories.
A Labour-Green coalition would be better under those circumstances, or perhaps even Labour-Sinn Fein, if the Tories can get away with bribing the odious DUP why not?
Labour-Green coalition: great idea!
No point in having a coalition with Sinn Fein. They never show up to vote.
For the LibDems to go into coalition with the Tories, the Tories would need to win a substantial number of seats. Even more than in 2010 because the LibDems don’t win anywhere near as many seats as they used to.
At the moment, it would be awkward for the LibDems to form a coalition with the Tories because of their opposing stance on Europe. They have been known to pledge one thing and do the opposite, though.
Ha ha, Lib who?
You Can’t trust the libdems as far as you can throw them, after they sold out the country by climbing into bed with the Tories, NO ONE is going to vote libdem!
Yep, LibDems have no chance.
The only people who think the LibDems have a chance are LibDems themselves and Tories I know/have seen, who think the LibDems would be a really nice party for someone else to vote for.
The Tories think the LibDems are what the youth of today will want: lying yellow Tories.
Yes, those idiots in the Libdems caused half of this by letting the Tory cat out of the bag.
But then Gordon Brown didn’t help. Remember, the Libdems went to Labour first for a coalition.
But Brown wouldn’t resign and told them to get lost. So the Libdems went across to the Tories instead. And put them back into power. Nice one Gordon.
My Green friends are now torn between Jeremy Corbyn and the Green Party.
A “socialist” friend has started helping out at the Labour Party, now that Labour calls itself “socialist” again.
Someone at volunteering has become a massive fan of Jeremy Corbyn, but he’s not sure about joining the Labour Party.
A close friend’s daughter and her housemates have a gigantic poster of Jeremy Corbyn on their closet door!
Jeremy Corbyn has MASSIVE public support.
The more that Corbyn gets abused and doubted, the more that the public rally round to support him. We know that we’ll never have another left-wing leader if we allow him to be pushed out.
Not the cry, but the flight of a wild duck, leads the flock to fly and follow. —Chinese Proverb
Back to the torrent of abuse from the Tories.
Beards, jumpers, allotments, punching-bags…
Brainwashed cults, dangerous Marxists, North Korea, Russian drinking games…
Now we’re told we’re like a flock of ducks.
Anyway, I love ducks. I think they are wise creatures, if only because they don’t waste their time talking to these moronic Tory trolls on this blasted forum.
Having said that, I’m sure it’s only a matter of time until we get a post on here in the name of Donald Duck…
These don’t sound like Tories to me. More like concerned Labour people who are genuinely worried about Corbyn as leader. If the Tories wanted to insult him, they wouldn’t waste time with proverbs.
Not sure how many Labour people would really make fun of our leader in this way. Most of them set out rational arguments. Taunts and proverbs don’t help the public image of our party, in my view.
Personally, it’s only Tories that I know and see on TV who say this sort of thing, and they do so A LOT.
Yes, there are concerned Labour people – and there have been a few on this forum, but they are noticeable because the tone of their argument tends to be different from the howls of ridicule directed at Jeremy Corbyn from the Tories.
Trouble is Alison, people voting Green take away from the Labour vote. And really there is only one party big enough to take down the Tories, and that’s got to be Labour.
It’ll be the usual crap about showing them they can’t take Labour for granted etc.
Followed by the party leaders taking comfort in the fact that even though they lost, really they won. Same as 2015. I’m getting that 2015 feeling all over again.
This is what is so off-putting to middle of the road Labour people. The party is a broad church as Tony Blair said. But sometimes it seems as if you are not welcome in the church unless you are singing the Momentum tune.
When faced w ith an enemy as ruthless & vicious as the Tories you don’t have the luxury of sitting in the middle of the road. This is war
It used to be proud of the fact that although we were all Labour, you could disagree with comrades . And each side still respect the other.
Could we do a sort of new version of New labour ? Catch the public eye again. Update it a bit, and call it something like Labour Future or something like that ? Short but easy to remember.
Amen to that brother. Not everybody is in agreement with them. But they’ve even got the MP’s looking over their shoulders. De-selection anyone ?
Dead on. Momentum won’t have any argument about anything. Either your in or your out. Or they start trying to change the subject to Tony Blair and Iraq.
Meanwhile, Rome burns. Corbyn has yet to put the case for social security for all that he needs to put. They’re scared of the anti welfare vote and puddle around accordingly. Pause and Fix for Universal Credit means fuck all. There’s a bit of pausing going on in places where the thing is utterly dysfunctional anyway and nothing I can see of in the way of fixing, unless you count a slightly reduced start time for payment and free calls to the Universal Credit line, which I don’t count. Whole thing needs to be destroyed.
Completely agree Kate. Corbyn might mean well, but it’s not enough unless he is going to do something constructive. Universal Credit was a vindictive system from the first, designed to punish and control claimants. It has caused, and continues to cause utter misery and suffering . Its outright cruelty has even sickened a number of the better Tories. If Jeremy Corbyn is to mean anything as Leader of The Opposition, he must take a strong position against Universal Credit. And say clearly that Labour will scrap and replace Universal Credit.
Yep
I’d go further. I’d like an end to sanctions, an end to the Bedroom Tax, an end to the Shared Accommodation Rate, an end to the Work Capability Assessment (which Labour did pledge at the last election), an end to Mandatory Work Activity, an end to mandatory pointless sessions with private companies in exchange for receiving the dole. I’d like mothers to receive Income Support until their youngest child is 11 or 12, without being expected to find work or attend pointless meetings.
It would be a considerable departure from the current way of thinking, even the current system of Jobseekers Allowance. But I believe people with no income should be given their £73 per week without endless conditionality, which is very expensive in itself. Sure, people often do the wrong thing. But I’d still rather they got something from the state. Also, I don’t want people turning up at adult education courses just because the Jobcentre told them to, with no real interest in the course, because that’s really irritating for those of us who DO want to learn. Why waste money on courses for people who don’t want to learn? Limit spending on them to £73 per week.
And what is Corbyn going to do about Universal Credit ? Or is he still hedging his bets with ‘pause & fix’ ? It needs to be scrapped. Labour should never have allowed it to pass without opposition in 2012. Now they have a clear chance to do something about it. The question is will Corbyn step up to the plate and do something about Universal Credit, or would he rather just leave it all to Debbie Abrahams ?
They Don’t have a clear chance to do anything about it untilth….*until* they are elected.
But they do have a chance to be honest with the general public, and say openly what they intend to do about these important issues. Universal Credit, the dreadful treatment of the disabled and the despised Atos / Maximus WCA test. The scrapping of the Independent Living Allowance, will Labour replace it ? And if so how ?
Labour’s views and position on Brexit, what are those, and how will Labour deal with the problem of Ireland ?
The defence situation, what will Corbyn do about the nuclear deterrent ? And there are many, many more.
Yet Jeremy Corbyn and his apostles in Momentum seem not to have any answers.
You’re welcome to read our party manifesto. I think you’ll find it will answer most of your questions about what Labour plan to do in various policy areas. At the time of the last election, the BBC would have summarised each party’s manifesto for the general public to compare them.
I know off the top of my head that Labour plan to scrap the Work Capability Assessment and the party policy is to renew Trident.
Last time I laid out Labour policies on this forum, I got ridiculed and told Labour is looking for life in outer space. Therefore, it’s not easy to set out any policy positions. Every time we try, we get drowned out with taunts and jeers.
It would be nice if the Tories gave us a bit of respect once in a while.
Frankly Trev, Corbyn could do a lot more than he is doing on Universal Credit. He could give a clear opposition to it, and say outright that Labour will scrap it if elected. Not fix, scrap.
Yes, i agree, UC cannot be fixed & needs to be scrapped, & i too would like Labour to have said so, but they have to be careful not to give the Tories any ammo to start slagging them off as being pro-“Skiver” etc. Remembering that Welfare is the new dirty word for Social Security and all Claimants have been branded negatively by the Right wing & the irresponsible Media. But also, Corbyn might be keeping his powder dry while he waits for the results of Labour’s feasibility study of Universal Basic Income?
No matter what stance we take, we will be ridiculed senseless and drowned out until nobody knows what we think anyway. That’s why we need to stand for what we believe – and take less heed of polls and newspapers.
Ah, the waiting to pounce stuff. The moment when Corbyn swings out of the shadows like an avenging Ninja, scattering the Tory hordes before him.
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Yes but Alison. Suppose all the Labour front-bench were magically transformed into ducks, by an evil Tory wizard . And they stood outside parliament waiting to take-off and fly over the Thames. Corbyn, as leader should take-off first and give a clear lead. And perhaps a couple of loud quacks as he passes the Houses of Parliament and wings beating, heads off upriver. This is leadership. Now the other ducks from the front bench can clearly see the way. And they rise in their turn one by one, and follow their leader flying into the distance. And if you looked up you would see the flock of ducks making a pointed arrow shape, with Corbyn at the head, leading the way up into the sky.
This thread has descended into Quackery.
And close behind would be an evil Tory witch on her broomstick, leading a [collective noun unknown] of cackling imps screeching nonsense about animals, allotments and punching-bags.
Watching Labour at the moment is like Corbyn and McDonnell playing chess.
One of them makes a move, then has a long think. Then the other one has a move.
But the real world is just carrying on around them. It’s as if they don’t see it.
Corbyn must do more, and he must be seen to do more. If he can’t do better than he is doing, he is not going to win. And Momentum can sing Hallelujah all they like.
Labour are going to stuff themselves once again in 2022 if they can’t present a strong image to the public. One where they know what they stand for, not one where everything is constantly being changed and messed about.
Chess is a good analogy. Two adults playing chess while the little children (i.e. Tories, trolls, etc.) run round screaming, trying to get attention for themselves.
‘Jeremy does sometimes seem to lack focus. He has difficulty in articulating
his thoughts, and can be easily distracted. I do sometimes feel that he does not
put all the effort into his work of which he is capable. Must try harder.’
In view of the above I can only give Jeremy a B – for the current term.
The Headmaster.
Still, though, Headmaster, you are going to vote for him when the time comes aren’t you? As there is no other way to rid ourselves of the evil Tory menace. Correct?
I am guessing “Headmaster” is another Tory troll. They take on all sorts of guises, but they’re only after one thing: taking the p out of our party.
Trev, only a very silly boy would vote Tory. And I would have no hesistation in giving that boy 100 lines. ‘ I must think of the wider society and not vote for the Conservative Party.’
Glad to hear it! No need to report you to ofsted then. BTW, i wonder if kids still get lines? We did, & detentions, bsides getting beaten with either a cane or a plimsoll. Tteachers would get jailed now if they carried on like they did when i was at school.
Children still get detention, but they don’t write lines any more. The latest punishment is called “exclusion” and it involves spending all day sitting at a desk in a special room, on your own or in the company of a few other naughty ones.
Exclusion, that happened to me too, but it wasnt called that then, i Don’t recall that word being used but i had to spend every Maths lesson sitting on my own in the Library. It felt awful.
Should’ve behaved yourself, then?
I think I would’ve enjoyed it. No teacher, no lesson, no teasing…just me sitting there on my own, listening to the peace and quiet.
Trolls galore on this forum…
Alison if you’ll forgive me for saying so, this is one of the problems of Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters. They always seem to have a chip on their shoulder about him. If he can’t put up with a bit of harmless irony then how can he hope to lead the country ?
That’s true, considering the amount of irony there is in politics these days.
Typical Momentum tactic. any criticism and it’s traitor, Blairite, New Labour, or Tory Troll. Is Jeremy Corbyn expected now to be above criticism of any kind ?
And what I would like to know, and the other woodland folk, what is Jeremy Corbyn doing about Badgers ? You can’t go out at night now without being targeted by some camouflaged sniper with a laser gunsight. Last thing my uncle Bertram saw was this strange red light between his eyes, and bang, they shot him.
I’m sure Labour will put a stop to all that. After all, Badgers are supposed to be a protected species, just that the Tories think they are above the law when it comes to favouring landowners .
Yes, it’s dreadful isn’t it, Mr Badger? Perhaps you can persuade your human friends to vote Labour. Jeremy Corbyn is a vegetarian, so I’m sure he’ll put a stop to this needless killing.
Well, if we badgers had a vote, I’d certainly be voting Labour. It’s thanks to them that we had that awful fox-hunting stopped.
Matter of fact this is true. They have killed thousands of badgers over the past few years. Not sure what for really.
Why? To satisfy their voters – the bloodlust of theCountry Alliance types and the business interests of the farmer landowners. They knew full well that Animal Rights types such as I would never vote Tory.
If they had their way hunting would have been brought back. But after the disaster at the election, they’ve decided not to risk it.
Also, because we signed petitions and emailed our MPs when they tried to remove animal sentience from the EU Withdrawal Bill. That was when the Tories ditched a fox-hunting vote and proclaimed they loved all things animal.
Before that, I guess they thought we didn’t care about animals!
I believe the farmers lobbied the government to cull badgers because they blamed badgers for spreading bovine TB.
Thing is, I suspect it’s got a lot to do with modern farming practices as well: overcrowding, too much time spent indoors, too much confinement, pellets and protein supplements instead of a grass-only diet…
I buy Waitrose milk because Waitrose pay their dairy farmers to let their cows into a field during the summer months, instead of confining them all year, as many farmers do nowadays.
There won’t be any badgers left if they keep shooting them at this rate. They’ll be extinct.
Yes, the risk of extinction is also a reason to be concerned. We have regrets about dwindling populations of bats, hedgehogs and bees.
I believe that we should not kill animals unless we are going to eat them. The lack of humaneness of the badger cull is my no. 1 reason for opposing it.
Yay! Good for you, Mr Badger!
We’ll have to work on getting you the vote…
Absolutely. We foxes everywhere owe a considerable debt to Labour for stopping the dreadful practice of hunting. Vote Labour !
Or if you can’t actually vote, then wish them luck on election day.
There’s a good case being made for animal suffrage here!
It often makes me think what the world would be like if it was run by badgers and not people. And badgers were human-sized and lived in towns while humans were small, and lived in the woods.
Well, for a start, everything would run at night: night-time shopping, all-night trains… Work would be 9pm to 5am. I doubt there would be many streetlights. And the NIMBYs would go mad because we’d have all-night aeroplane noise.
Very close to the Houses of Parliament, someone died sleeping rough in the freezing cold.
Entirely symbolic of the whole miserable Tory austerity agenda.
People with nothing, freezing to death on the streets near Parliament.
Alison, if there is one thing that shows Tory cruelty it is this.
A homeless man dies alone in the cold. God damn them for what they have done.
When is Labour going to commit to abolishing Universal Credit, mandatory reconsiderations, sanctions and the WCA?
No more words, time for action.
Yeah – Universal Credit . It’s a test case for Labour.
The most prominent welfare programme.
It’s nasty and it should be stopped. And the whole system looked at again. Corbyn has got to stand up and say so.
He must. This is one thing that Labour must do and that is get rid of Universal Credit. Once it gets established it is going to much harder to get rid of.
Labour can’t afford to be low-key on this, it’s just too important.
Labour need to be working on a replacement system for Universal Credit. Call it something else, social security or whatever. Get the research done on what is wrong with UC. That ought to be no problem ! Then start developing a new fairer system. So that the public can see that Labour are serious about it. Debbie Abrahams would be ideal to lead on this. But now is the time for action.
Many people who use the current system are strongly in favour of a Universal Basic Income. There is lots of research going into this all over the world.
Personally, I have my doubts. I think it may prove to be very open to fraud.
I favour a non-conditionality dole, paid weekly or fortnightly, with a regular interview at the Jobcentre. The interview would reduce fraud and provide a time and place to discuss any change of circumstances. If handled correctly, it could allow staff to check that claimants were coping in their circumstances and ensure that they always had a person to talk to. The interview would also be a place where job and training opportunities could be discussed, plans made and solutions found. Attending the Jobcentre would help to keep the possibility of work in people’s minds and feed aspirations.
However, I don’t favour compulsion and conditionality.
I would like to see the culture of the Jobcentre change from punitive to welfare-oriented.
Labour committed to abolishing the Work Capability Assessment at the last election.
With Miliband ? Alison don’t make me laugh. He couldn’t even eat a bacon sandwich without looking like some awful geek.
No, not with Miliband. With Corbyn. At the election LAST YEAR.
You’re making fun of me, Harry? I am simply informing people of what the Labour Party policy was, because lots of people on this forum don’t seem to know.
As for you, Harry, you don’t even know who was in charge of the Labour Party last time we had an election. So how about if you go back to school and finish your homework before you start talking down to me? I’m probably twice your age, from the sound of it, anyway.
When people ask a question and I answer it, I don’t need abuse from trolls like you.
You ought to be banned.
Besides, Harry, politics is not about how people eat a sandwich. It is a very important thing. It is about whose policies would be best for our country. For five long years.
Nowadays, it is all too easy to focus on the media circus the surrounds every leader of the Labour Party. Yet this is our country, so we really must make up our own minds, without allowing ourselves to be unduly influenced by a lot of nonsense in the media.
It sounds as though you don’t like the Labour Party very much, Harry. Perhaps you’re more of a Tory man? If that is the case, I hope you would not form an opinion against Mrs May just because you saw other people laughing at her eating a sandwich.
Labour must say what they mean, and mean what they say. Then they must act.
Got to say I was put off by that whole sandwich thing. The look on Milliband’s face as he bit into this ‘food of the people’ said it all. London champagne socialist.
Working-class Tories, yes you, the ones that read the Sun, hate immigrants and voted for all this cruelty. How many more people are going to have to die before you have had your fill of hatred ?
Unfortunately, part of the reason for the success of the Tory austerity agenda lies firmly within the psychology of the British working-class. In many ways the most instinctively suspicious and divided. With an inbred dislike of outsiders, and a native cynicism about people cheating and working the system. Their love of the crowd, of mass events, rather than individual achievement. A strong preference for going along with the general opinion. Not wanting to be seen as different.
All these factors have enabled the Tories, who have a keen awareness of working-class attitudes, to impose the new system of austerity. And to manipulate group opinion through a largely compliant mass media.
It has all fitted into the working-class psyche like a key into a lock.
Sadly this is true. And so cleverly have so many working-class people been manipulated by the Tories, that they even think their attitudes and opinions are their own ideas.
The Tories have led them along the path of austerity like the Pied Piper . And just like with the original story, it’s not going to end well.
Yeah, if you drip-feed your brain from the right-wing tabloids and the Tory mass-media, this is what you get.
Labour needs to commit now to repealing the 2012 Welfare Reform Act. The legal basis for so much of the cruelty and hardship of the last six years.
Good idea!
And now is the time to start in on a full-scale attack on the Tories. Don’t let them think they are going to get away with Labour sitting back until 2021, before they really get into gear.
They should be getting cross-questioned in parliament every time they open their mouths. By Corbyn, Emily Thornberry, Tom Watson, all of them from the front bench. Then the public can see that for 2022 Labour really mean business.
In the end, a large number of jobs are set to be taken over by the new generation of robots. This will likely cause mass unemployment. So what will the Tories do then, sanction everybody ?
A Universal Basic Basic Income needs to be introduced right now. The Tories need to make an official apology to the citizens of the United Kingdom for what they have done.
The Tories should pay us compensation!!!
They ought to be brought up before the courts because of what they have done to the disabled people in this country.
It’s a national disgrace, condemned outright by the United Nations.
It’s high time for the Archbishop of Canterbury to be doing more as well. When was the last time he said anything about Tory cruelty ?
The Archbishop of Canterbury led a huge campaign against food poverty in 2014.
The Church of England was criticised by David Cameron for speaking out against the government’s austerity/welfare policies.
(Trolls, these are the facts. Bacon sandwich or not.)
I haven’t heard from the ArchB in some time. So not sure where this ‘campaign’ is.
The church could do a lot more to attack government policy than it is doing.
Agreed.
Every penny of sanctions should be repaid, and a full public apology offered by the DWP.
Labour also need to stop the dreadful sanction system. Duncan-Smith had the idea that if you stopped people’s food money, you could literally starve them into submission. Nice. And he’s a so-called catholic. What about the sin of cruelty ?
This has also got to stop. The idea that if someone is late for a Jobcentre meeting it is okay for the DWP to punish them by taking away their food for the next month. Just to teach them a lesson !
Even disabled claimants. This whole principle of withholding food to punish people has got to stop.
It’s barbaric and has no place in modern society.
None of HM Prisons is allowed to take food from the prisoners, no matter what they do.
In a just society, no-one would be allowed to be so wealthy that it was obscene.
The state would take back some of the money and re-distribute it to those less fortunate. So that if someone had 500 million pounds, the state would take 495 of those millions, leaving that person with 5 million – still a life of luxury. And then invest the 495 million in social services, welfare and community housing.
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