More on the sort of ritual humiliation people must now tolerate at jobcentres as a matter of course:
I attended a first JSA signing-on session last week with Tony, who is aged 60. These inaugural signon sessions at this jobcentre are not held as private, one-to-one meetings. People must attend these sessions as part of a group.
This is a big problem in itself, because people don’t always want to reveal their private information in front of ten or 12 strangers. People must fill in their claimant commitment forms as part of this session. They have to write about their histories and work experience, and not everyone wants to ask the questions they have about these things in front of people they don’t know. People might be ex-offenders, or have long gaps in a work history because they have serious drug and alcohol problems. They may have problems with their reading and writing. On this occasion, one person asked me if I could spell out several words for their form.
Anyway. The toilets. Someone in the group asked if there was a public toilet in the building. The adviser who was running the session said No. There was a public toilet at the jobcentre once, but apparently needles were found in it from time to time and the jobcentre closed it. So – that was the end of that. It was simply a case of Too Bad. No alternative was offered. There’s actually a public toilet at the library just round the corner (I am getting on years and so am kind of familiar with the location of pretty much every public latrine in the parts of London I frequent), but nothing was said about that.
This is the sort of thing really gets on my wick. It seems small, but it isn’t. There’s a real vengefulness here. In any other setting, an effort would be made to solve the problem and offer people an alternative. But the normal courtesies aren’t extended to people who claim JSA. Quite the reverse. People who claim JSA are expected to put up with discomfort. They can wet themselves for all anybody cares. The fact that nobody had any choice but to attend the session and stay at it was neither here nor there. And there is no choice. People have to attend these signon sessions if they’re going to get unemployment money. If they don’t attend and stay, they can’t get JSA. The sessions are long – this one went on for more than an hour and people had to wait a while for it to start, so it probably lasted an hour-and-a-half all up. Add on another half-hour for the walk or bus ride there and you’re getting past a couple of hours.
However. The adviser did say that occasionally, an exception was made to the No Toilet rule. People sometimes might be able to use the toilet if they had a special medical problem. Presumably, they had to convince an adviser and/or security guard that their medical problem measured up.
This is exactly what Tony had to do. He’s 60 and not well. After an hour or so, he had to get up in front of the 12 people in the room, interrupt the adviser and whisper a list of his medical problems to see if he could win himself a visit to the toilet. Seriously. Aged 60. Everyone else in the group (the room was small) sat there watching this and trying to work out what was going on, and waiting to see how the adviser would play it. The adviser thought about it and listened some more and in the end, I guess, decided that Tony had a case. So, he told Tony to walk through the main part of the jobcentre to the security guards and to tell them he was allowed to use the toilet. Tony left the room – and returned in a few minutes to take the adviser aside again. He told me afterwards that the guards had said No to his request and sent him back to the room. A bit desperate now, he asked the adviser if he could tell the guards he was allowed to use the toilet. The adviser seemed stressed by this – “I can’t leave the room,” he said – but decided to solve the problem by opening the door and attracting the attention of the security guards across the main waiting area.
So much for dignity.
And that was that.
This is, just by the way, the sort of scenario speaks in a roundabout way of the reasons why I don’t have any truck with notions of “deserving” or “underserving” when it comes to social security. Everyone is deserving as far as I’m concerned and should be as far as you’re concerned as well. I don’t care what people did in their former lives – and I meet people who did some pretty terrible things, often to other people. All that matters is the immediate need that someone has when they turn up at a place like a jobcentre. Once you – or the state, at least – start implying that certain people are beneath contempt, you begin to find that the normal courtesies are no longer extended to those people. You find malice. You find institutional spite. You find yourself sitting in a crowded room in a jobcentre trying to avoid everyone else’s eye as a grizzled 60-year-old man grovels to use a toilet. That’s the sort of scenario that IDS’ grand welfare reforms come down to. I don’t care how much tax you pay, or how much right you think you should have to dictate standards to people who claim benefits. There’s not a person in the world who is entitled to impose malevolence.
Happy Saturday.
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Thanks for sharing, Kate! Re-posted and Re-tweeted on Derbyshire Anti Cuts campaign. Solidarity! Keep exposing the crap. Keep shining the lights in the dark corners and see the rats scurrying for cover!
People were treated disgustingly in Workhouses so they wouldn’t want to return, and this is what’s happening under IDS..They say your Government’s first duty is defending your security…NOT making you insecure! Truly scumbagian tactics!.
– – – even though work house was bad – at least you had a roof over your head – this bloody lot are seeing people evicted – and sanctioned – no home or enough for food – and still expect you to attend their stupid pointless courses – seems to me work house may have been a better deal for some these days !
If I remember correctly, even years ago, as soon one passed 60 they didn’t have to sign on. Nowadays the over 60s can ditch the Jobcentre and claim 100% Pension Guarantee Credit until their State pension begins – I have full PGC.
Unfortunately this is no longer the case. As the retirement age gets pushed back so does the qualifying age to claim Pension Credit – it is aligned with the age at which women can get their State Pension which is currently about 62 and a half.
Apart from all the obvious injustices of Welfare reform, this is a perfect example of the fact that, in my opinion, anyone in authority in Britain doesn’t even seem capable of acting sensibly and doing things as a normal human being would. There’s always a problem about so many things which shouldn’t really be a problem. I see it quite a lot, in so many areas of life in Britain.
Elderly people are incontinent, sometimes doubly so. But all ages suffer toxic shock to the body if denied a toilet break. Prisoners being interviewed are required by law to have a toilet break. I fill my incontinence pants to the point of leakage even to industrial strength’ versions, every few hours. The office act demands a toilet and free drinking water to workers.
And these elderly people will be on Jobseekers for the rest of their lives, when incontinence becomes a part of the ageing process. Because on and from 6 April 2016 many men and women face
nil state pension for life, even after a lifetime of paying National Insurance.
See why under my petition in my Why this is important section at:
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/state-pension-at-60-now
I am glad this got flagged up. I wonder when public toilets at the Jobcentres first disappeared. I know they were gone in 2012 but does anyone know if they vanished before that? Because there were always toilets in the past. Just like there were phones in the past and you know, actual job adverts in the widows. No, not traineeshits or community workhouse placements – but actual job adverts. Inside the Jobcentres. Fancy that!
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What a sad ,miserable tale. I’m a retired Job centre adviser and H&S rep.
These sort of sessions have largely been abandoned but your one appears to be set up contrary to DWP guidelines and basic common sense.
At any group session there should be at least 2 advisers and a security guard within reach. Anyone with a medical condition should have been identified in advance and appropriate adjustments put in place. Drinking water should also be readily available.
There are also strict H&S regs that limit how many people can be in a small room and also on the entire floor.
The adviser should run through emergency procedures and exits etc and tell everyone where to evacuate to outside.
In my former office I made sure this was all adhered to and in the end management decided the group sessions were too much trouble lol.
Even if none of this guidance/H&S regs were followed in the JC in question there is absolutely no excuse for treating people in this way.
A complaint to the local MP is often quite effective as JC managers hate this. They have to do a ful ‘investigation’ and report.
Regards ,
Bill
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I’m only in my late 20s, but I’ve had experience of this particular discomfort and humiliation. Again, it was at my first interview, which at this JobCentre was done in private, but it still took a long time (especially because it started half an hour late). When I asked to use the loo, the woman didn’t make me provide a medical excuse, but she did escort me to the security guard, who escorted me through a locked door, led me to the toilet and closed the door behind me. He then waited for me outside the toilet till I was done. It was such a petty degradation that I wanted to cry.
Cited in KUWG blog piece Concentration camps and benefit caps.
Dud Swheatie of Kwug
Everyone should have pissed on the floor.
But know this….. everyone on JSA.., you are worth a million civil servants who crawl around jobcenters drunk on power,
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Bill’s comment interested me.
Mentioning at Group sessions – Drinking Water should be provided.
If you are providing water (classed as a refreshment) – Then the Job Centre must therefore provide toilet facilities by law.
Why then don’t they appear to know this and act upon it?
I think I might have seen the link to this post on Mike Sevier’s Vox Political blog recently. Anyway, it made me so angry I started a petition on the Parliament website. (now up to 2097 signatures)
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/126184
I think it’s totally out of order that toilets aren’t available in Jobcentres, and I’ve had interesting feedback on Twitter as most people don’t seem to realise that they aren’t.
I’ve started a petition about this, partly based on this blog post, and another one that I quote in the petition, which has also been mentioned in a HoC debate. Since I started it I’ve heard from a lady on Twitter who had her 3 year old with her and when child needed the loo was told to take it to next door fast food place and use toilets there.
Anyway, I’d be grateful if you’d help me publicise my petition if you have any time and energy to do so!
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/126184
Best wishes from Liverpool, Maggie
Oops sorry for second post – missed my previous one to you – not doing well today!
i needed toilet at signing on, she was 20 minutes late, I told security I had to go but was scared to miss my meeting in case of sanction. He said pop up the road and use public loo and come back ASAP, I will let her know, I cannot walk very fast so I said I could be a while. We get sanctioned if late or rude to them, but they keep you waiting and are condescending to us
Mandy, would you be prepared to be interviewed about this? Anonymously if you prefer. I was in touch with Frances Ryan @DrFrancesRyan on Twitter about my Petition (see above)
Maggie W @ladycatlover
Jul 01
@DrFrancesRyan Thank you for RT. This becoming more a problem for WASPI ladies, & disabled required to attend JC meets post WCA loss of ESA.
and she replied “If you come across anyone who experiences this and would be willing to speak out (can be anon.), I’ll do best to cover.”
I would just wee in my pants as protest!!
If doubly incontinent that would clear the room.
I’m disgusted at the way people are being treated. As a nurse I’m disgusted that Drs med certificates are being ignored. I went with a young epileptic friend who has been pushed into job clubs despite being on esa that we went to tribunal and won.
It’s made him so stressed his mental health has deteriorated. He wants to work within his capacity. He volunteers and the whole experience has been traumatic. What is going on!
I found him a part time 16 he job he’s taken but not really safe as using heavy gardening tools and chainsaws. I hope he doesn’t fall off a ladder or have a fit and an accident. He has his pride and what do they do cancel all his housing benefit and all other benefits incorrectly and he’s now in a state over that for fear of eviction.
Exasperated!! I think we should be telling all the welfare right and disability organisations as government are not listening
I’m a WASPI lady so have my own issues over loss of pension and I now have to work till I’m 66 yrs after continuous work since I was 15. This country has gone mad and Teresa may is certainly not helping the disabled or pensioners or the young who do work all hours to just get by.
I am 62 man with severe health problems, I wasn’t given enough points to continue claiming ESA and now I am made to attend the Jobcentre weekly and treated by my Advisor with utter contempt…..He literally wants to drive me to suicide
I have no support and I feel completely lost.
My local jobcenter has a toilet, but convieniatly it has been out of order for six months due to a “flush problem” The real problem is that if they had it fixed then someone may might want to use it . I know plumbers are hard to get hold of but come on.