This is a page from a jobsearch sheet that belongs to a JSA claimant whose fortnightly JSA signon sessions I’ve attended on and off for about 18 months at two jobcentres.
I’m posting this to show you the pointlessness of some of these jobcentre signon sessions and of the DWP’s jobsearch regime in general:
The sheet shows evidence of some of the 14 jobsearch activities that this man must carry out each fortnight to continue to claim his jobseekers’ allowance – so, 14 job applications and CV-drops into shops and supermarkets, and that sort of thing. (I think it’s 14. Seems to vary a bit). This man has some literacy problems and copies words from one fortnight’s sheets to the next. He carries the same spelling mistakes and disordered text over in these records. Nobody’s ever pointed the spelling mistakes out, or said anything about the confusing text. You wonder if anyone ever reads any of it (I don’t wonder, really. I don’t think anybody does read the sheets and if they do, they clearly don’t think the details count).
The thing about the jobsearch activity in these sheets? – nothing ever seems to come of it. The DWP’s jobsearch and Claimant Commitment requirements mean that this guy must show this fortnightly evidence that he has looked for work – but that’s it. The jobsearch exercise ends there. This man must fill his sheets in, but nothing is done with the information that he writes. I’ve never seen an attempt made at a jobcentre to help this guy turn the listings in his sheets into actual work. No phone calls have ever been made on this man’s behalf to the employers he lists – at least, not at the signon appointments that I’ve attended. I’ve never seen an attempt to follow up on the applications that he records. Nobody asks from one signon appointment to the next if the job applications that he listed in previous weeks amounted to anything. Every two weeks, this guy takes his collection of sheets into the jobcentre for an adviser to look at. The adviser glances at the writing, asks how the jobsearch is going and sets another signon appointment for two weeks’ time. That really is about it.
We go in for these jobcentre appointments every fortnight. Some JSA claimants must go in every week. Others must go in every day if they’re at a jobcentre which insists on a daily signon regime. These really are trips to the jobcentre for no reason. Every six months or so, an adviser will try to push this guy into voluntary work or onto the Work Choice programme. He goes on some programmes and not on others. Either way, he’s back at the jobcentre when the work programme is done. We carry on with the fortnightly signons. This guy has whole booklets and sheets filled out exactly like this: pages and pages of poorly-spelled text about jobsearch activities that nobody pursues, or even reads a lot of the time.
Anyway. This is how long-term unemployment looks, at least as far as I can see – endless paper and endless trips to the jobcentre for the hell of it. Nothing changes, or shifts. We all just get older. I suppose that IDS .gets off on that. Or something.
I’ve refused to fill in such. It’s a record of my jobsearch I need provide, so that I do.
I save a Word document and the first part is always the same – how I spend about three hours a day (truthfully) using job email alerts, on LinkedIn, checking other job sites etc. The other half I fill in with is details of jobs I’ve applied for (and this obviously varies each week). It’s about a page of A4 in total. They also insist, for no good reason, that I also put all this in Universal Jobmatch record of activities as well.
This shows how I meet the ‘4 hours a day’ obligation (they claim that’s 7 days a week, I wonder if that should be 5).
They now accept this record. It’s relatively easy to do although I appreciate that’s not true if you don’t have a computer or are not very literate.
They spend about 10 seconds checking it.
As a point of information, it’s good to remember that the test contained in the 1995 Jobseekers Act still holds for anyone claiming JSA (but not UC) and that is that you need to take at least two steps towards finding work to qualify as Actively Seeking Employment. So JSAg/CC, whilst relevant, are not legal documents, and as such don’t define what must be done. Unfortunately many thousands of people appear to be sanctioned based on not doing all that is contained in their JSAg/CC. These sanctions can be successfully challenged, as the test isn’t a negative one, but a positive one, i.e. based on what you did do to seek employment, not on what you did not do. It’s also important to realise that the test in the 1995 Act is a weekly, and not a daily test, so if one is taking three or more steps towards seeking employment in a week, (and it can also be less, where that is reasonable) one is ASE for the purposes of the JSA regulations. The JSAg/CC is important, but only as a guide, and can be referred to in a situation where the JSAg/CC lists, for example, 12 activities, and those 12 are fulfilled one week, thus fulfilling the quota, so to speak, and on another week 11 of the 12 activities are completed, resulting in a sanction. This kind of sanction should be overturned at Mandatory Reconsideration stage, but unfortunately even at this level it seems that a negative test is still applied, and a sanction upheld. That being the case, an Independent Tribunal should be the next step, where an unlawful sanction, which such a sanction must be, should be overturned.
There is also no requirement to spend a specified number of hours undertaking worksearch, as the only stipulation is to take at least two steps each week towards finding employment.
Seven days a week jobsearch? So much for the Christainity of Iain Duncan Smith! Or is it just benefit claimants deemed to be ‘workshy’ who are not entitle to a day of rest from jobsearch?
Dude Swheatie of Kwug
My friend – if there was a god, there’d be no Iain Duncan Smith.
I remember meeting this young bloke who said he had to do 25 jobsearch activities:
http://www.katebelgrave.com/2014/03/im-62-and-they-threaten-me-with-sanctions-more-stories-from-the-jobcentre/
Which seemed a very large number.
I’m also thinking – I’m not even sure if the bloke in this article had a final claimant commitment number of jobs agreed after he moved to this new jobcentre. We were supposed to sort it out with one adviser but that adviser left and I don’t rightly remember anyone else formalising anything.
Kind of goes to show that nobody really reads this stuff or gives a shit.
This is all so absolutely typical of what happens to people signing long-term.
Often through no fault of their own.
Endless token applications, often made through the agency sites. Why ? Because then you get an ‘Application Confirmation’ you can print out and take along to your sign-on as evidence of your jobsearch.
A vast largely pointless paper-chase, designed to inconvenience the claimant to the maximum degree. So that being on unemployment benefit is made a suitably awkward and irritating experience.
Getting on for 18 months we’ve been doing this I think. The only people getting anything out of it are Wetherspoons, because I usually take him there for breakfast after signon. Not a bad breakfast.
Maybe we could say that ‘electoral tagging’ and monitoring of people who offend ‘those in power’ take many forms?
Dude Swheatie of Kwug
I think it’s a fine line you need to steer between standing up for yourself and being sanctioned. I operate on the basis that staff often don’t know the rules (or have been told wrong stuff, sometimes). It’s also the case that me telling them something is incorrect works better with my record (letters to my MP) etc., than, regrettably those unsure, maybe not with English with as their 1st language (although I enjoy leaning across and offering my view/assistance.)
So, for example, if anyone said ‘Application Confirmation’ (a new one on me) to me I’d say something, politely, like, ‘there is no obligation for such, only for proof of jobsearch for so many hours, that I have a UJM account and that I have a public CV.’ And, if necessary, ‘You try that on and I will make an immediate written complaint.’
Now I don’t know all the rules but I act like I do or I can find out. Yes, it can annoy them – last time I signed on I was sanctioned completely wrongly (lifted within a week) out of pure spite because of my attitude but I think a stance of questioning any new stuff (‘You need to log-in to UJM every day and apply for all your jobs there’ – ‘I’m sorry you have been misinformed by your manager but there is no such obligation;; you only need to have a UJM and a public CV’ – ‘Oh, ok’) is best.
You actually don’t even need a UJM account, and though you can be mandated to set one up, it has to be reasonable. So, if your jobsearch is up to par, and you are taking at least two steps each week towards finding employment you are satisfying the test contained within the Jobeseekers Act 1995, so it could be argued that under those circumstances a mandation to sign up and use UJM would be unreasonable.
I have still not signed up to UJM, and I was invited to do so back in late 2012 when UJM was launched. I politely declined, and continued to do so on the four or five subsequent occasions my advisor half-heartedly suggested it was a good idea. It’s not been mentioned since.
It’s also not compulsory to sign up to electronic signing, it’s entirely voluntary, and if you want, you are entitled to continue with your paper signing – which of course I do!
It is often the case in my experience that JSA advisors do not know the regulations, and believe what they are told by their line managers – I needed to point out the FoI over the electronic signing, as my advisor had been told that it was mandatory – I sent him a link to an FoI on electronic signing, and he challenged his line manager, who admitted that whilst it was voluntary, there were benefits to using the system… oh yeah?
Yep I am definitely of the opinion that lots of advisers are unsure of the rules, or at least say something must be done when it doesn’t have to be…interesting what you say about the electronic signing. They’re really pushing the guy in this story to do it. At his last signing on, we watched the guy next to us getting more and more stressed as the thing wouldn’t accept his signature. He had his passport as ID too.
You should see mine! I have to check 4 separate websites daily, check up on my emails, and ask friends and family, as well as check employer websites. This amounts to around six or seven job applications per day, seven days a week. Each jobsearch diary lasts about week (usually less than that in reality) so I have to ask for at least three every time I sign-on.
My work coach often remarks on how much jobsearch I do per week, but I only do the minimum as set out in y JSA CC; any less than that and I fear a sanction.
Do you ever attend accompanied? The Kilburn Unemployed Workers Group motto is: “Never attend anywhere official alone.”
No I haven’t, and to be honest my experiences with my jobcentre haven’t been as bad as the stories I’ve read here and on other websites. I realise I’m quite lucky in that regard, although I wish I’d stood my ground more when my current JSA CC was drawn up.
I think it worthwhile seeking to get your CC changed. I signed on (after a year) and I noticed they had left out that bit about being able to apply for jobs like your last one for three months but I also wanted to change my agreement to look at UJM weekly and not daily (it really is poor compared to other job sites – I prefer the ‘aggregators’ indeed.co.uk and adzuna.co.uk.)
They prevaricated but conceded I could do such and the CC was rewritten. They just printed the initial CC after a brief chat with me about what will be in it. It seemed rude to insist on seeing a draft (after it was printed) but that was just be being too nice. That’s a stance you can’t adopt with DWP – they won’t return the favour.
Which relates to the good points that Padi makes. I clearly know less about the rules that what I think but I also weigh up the grief between going nuclear and getting my rights but possibly also starting no end of hassle (e.g. they completely wrongly once suspended me for six weeks for doing a fortnight’s jury service – I always knew I would win but it still meant six weeks without payment until I got the arrears).
What also makes standing up tough is that I don’t know of any authoritative source of information. It takes a lot of web searching to get some good detail about some DWP rules but nowhere can you see all (or most) of what you need whilst also being fully confident in what you read.
I wish JRF or some other body would think about doing a comprehensive site listing such information. A discussion area would be good but we really need a lawyer or someone stating the rules authoritatively and in fine detail. Maybe such could even be done by someone paid by website ads – the target audience is in the millions. It would be great to able to say to DWP staff, ‘BenefitLaw says you are wrong about that, the rule is actually…’ and watch them crumble.
If your doctor says you are not fit to work, as mine has, who would employ you anyway? I went in to sign on after my ESA was stopped but due to my mental health problems (I don’t usually leave my house at all) couldn’t stay in there for the initial meeting and was unable to return for the actual signing on appt two days later. Even though they knew of my condition they said I’d have to come in every week and they’re a fairly long train journey away. When I asked how I was supposed to get there when I had no money for train fare the interviewer just shrugged. I left in tears and have had no income at all for 6 weeks now.
Sick of their arrogant week by week pestering and harassment tactics of forcing me to use universal job match, something I see pointless considering you can apply for jobs from about 100 other websites without the need for logging in to them but they insist I must log in, like as if Universal jobmatch is one job site that is really is going to make a difference and boost your chances of finding work. I find jobcentre staff very unhelpful and theyre more bothered these days about warning about sanctions than they are in helping you into work
The general jobcentre/work programme routine is claimants put in a lot of effort trying to find work, record their efforts, they sign on/attend WP appointments and get a bunch of feeble excuses for lazy and rude employers/agencies, such as:
Why don’t you volunteer (to prove you’re an idiot who will work for nothing)
Agencies don’t have time to respond to applications to their job adverts but they DO have time to answer spec letters!?????
Oh you don’t want to settle for a min wage job we try and push on you so we can get our bonus from the Arbeit Macht Frei Tories? You are a greedy scrounger.