Have posted below a transcript from another recent interview at Stockport jobcentre. I’ve been leafleting there with Stockport United Against Austerity.
The interview was with Brian (name changed), 54.
Brian was signing on for JSA.
I’m posting Brian’s story to show again the senseless demands that the DWP makes of older unemployed people who really haven’t got a hope in hell of finding work – especially using the jobcentre’s failed methods.
I meet a lot of people in their 50s and 60s who sign on for unemployment benefits.
A lot of these older claimants worked in manual jobs in their day. Brian did. He left school at 15 and went to work building dry stone walls. He joined the army. Then, he worked as a security guard.
Employers cut manual workers loose as they get older. Their health often starts to deteriorate (Brian was disabled after an accident at work. He’d been found fit for work at a recent ESA assessment). People can’t compete for manual jobs with applicants half their age.
That’s one of the many reasons why their chances of finding decent work and pay are zilch.
People know this.
Brian certainly did. “The trouble is that once you get past 50, you’re knackered,” Brian said.
He felt that people from his sort of background – without education and literacy skills – really struggled as they aged:
“..what really knackered us up… [was that] we had poor schooling. Really bad.”
Jobcentres know how the land lies, of course – but still they force people in Brian’s situation to take part in so-called jobsearch activities.
Jobsearch activities never lead to employment – they can’t, by definition – but people must still trudge to their jobcentres to complete them. “Pointless” doesn’t begin to cover these perverse drills. This is the DWP making older, sick or disabled people dance for its entertainment.
Brian was one of many people I’ve spoken to at Stockport recently who had to attend the jobcentre to engage in a famously meaningless activity – to sit at a computer and apply online for tens and hundreds of jobs while jobcentre staff watched.
Nobody I speak to ever gets a job this way. EVER. People don’t even receive an automated acknowledgement a lot of the time. They just sit there clicking Send buttons on job applications until staff say they can stop.
Thousands of people at jobcentres around the country are forced to apply online for jobs this way each week. They must even pay for the privilege. At Stockport, people have to fork out £4 for a bus ticket to and from the jobcentre. People must travel in from miles away.
Said Brian:
“[In the days] when we had the [paper] job applications, I could hand those in. I would hear something back in a couple of days. I either got the job, or I didn’t get the job. [Now] I’m applying for five times as many jobs, [but] never hear a thing…it’s all on the computer. You’re not going to get a job just on internet.
Even job coach…she said, “I can’t understand why you’re not getting replies.”
I said, “when I was back in the 80s, 90s, it was about 15 to one [applying] per job at a rough estimate. Now you’re going for 350 to one. Everybody’s applying for the same fricking jobs, but half of you won’t hear….
It’s crap, honestly, what they have in there [at the jobcentre]. It’s not worth the space it is written on…there’s just not enough jobs out there…you’re applying and you get no replies… the system’s broken.”
It certainly is.
It is definitely broken for people who’ve been written off – older, disabled people who the system has decided belong on the scrapheap forever. Brian told me another story. He said that the jobcentre wouldn’t help him cover costs for his security badge, so that he could work in security again. He’d paid the money himself.
Renewing a badge costs about £220 – money Brian had struggled to find. God knows what goes on with these security badges. I find the whole system bizarre. It seems that sometimes, jobcentres pay for badges and sometimes they don’t. I’ve spoken to people whose badges the DWP has paid for and to people who’ve had to pay for their badges themselves.
Brian said he’d done a “different” course. Perhaps it wasn’t a DWP approved course. Or perhaps the DWP had decided that Brian’s age and health didn’t warrant a financial outlay.
Whatever the case, nothing was easily fixed. Nothing is ever easily fixed at jobcentres.
Brian was stuck where he was. Forever.
Everyone in these situations is stuck – stuck in this mindless plod between home and jobcentre every day, or week, or fortnight, or whatever, to go be seen applying online for hundreds of jobs that very likely don’t even exist.
There’s no exit from this terrible path. I feel very strongly that government conspires to keep people on it. It’s a criminal waste of time and lives.
Brian said that his work coach told him that the jobcentre would put his name forward for a careers’ course – but that he’d have to wait to find out if he’d been selected:
“…[my work coach said] Your name’s got to be picked out of a hat…I’ve got more chance of winning lottery than getting on that…”
I asked Brian for his views on government:
“Don’t get me started on politics, I hate the fuckers. They are more ripoff than a crook…”
and:
“…I’m not against creed, or race, and I would never insult a person, but I’m sorry – there’s just too many foreigners and they’re all piled up in London.”
and:
“…they’re not producing enough jobs here in this country. This is why the benefit craze has gone off.
Then, they’re whinging at us to get a job.
I say, “why don’t you come and try it from my side of the fence?” I said [to the jobcentre] – “I tell you what. If you’re so concerned about me getting employment, get me a job in here.” Put their money where their fucking mouth is.”
Precisely.
More excerpts from our conversation:
Brian: I’m also partly disabled, but there’s just not enough jobs out there. You go out there and you look and you’re applying and you get no replies… the system’s broken.
So, I’m partly disabled…[you] go to the [job] interview, got you heard – and then they don’t give you the job. They give it to somebody else. [I’ve got] no driving licence or anything, so it’s shit…
I’ve just started [signing on at the jobcentre]. I was caring for my stepmum, but she’s passed away then… I got my security badge. I had to pay for my own badge. [It was] £250 [sic] on benefits… I’ve worked 18 years in the security industry. Then, when they come up with the crappy idea of licensing it, it blocked your way back to work… you can’t get a job [without a current badge].
I did manage to get my licence in the end, but I only used it three times [as a security guard] in a charity shop. That was it – so it was a waste of £250…
Me: They [the jobcentre] wouldn’t pay for it?
Brian: One or two others when I went on the course got theirs paid for. I didn’t get mine paid for. .. this is what annoys me, because I wanted to get the CCTV licence. I was hoping to get that. [The jobcentre said] “[we] can’t do that. It’s too expensive. We can’t afford that..”
I said to one MP – “why the hell don’t you train us? Give us the skills that we want. Then we get a decent job, we can pay the government back.” Something like that.
But the trouble is that once you get past 50, you’re knackered. I’m 54. Once you’re past 54, you’re knackered.
It’s like I told the very nice lady there [in the jobcentre] – the work coach. She said, “have you heard owt from Careers yet?”
I said, “I’ve not heard a bloody thing.” I said, “they’re all a waste of space.”
I’m disabled, but I don’t like to quit. I always worked hard all my life, back in the 80s and 90s, up to 2003 when I had a severe accident at work. There were no compensation schemes or anything, so I’ve got neck’s all knackered, veins collapsed in the right knee, slipped discs in my back. I went to Atos [sic] and they were a waste of space. Basically, they said I was fit for work. Two years back, I did, basically two years of signing on and then I decided to look after me mum. Then after that, I’m signing back, because there’s nothing out there. The trouble is that this Atos, it is a waste of time. Should get rid of it.
I’ve been here [signing on for JSA] for six, eight weeks, I have to come in every week at the moment, because they have this new stupid law. I have to sign on every week for three months before you go on fortnightly. That’s for JSA. I said okay, but I’m not being funny – it’s costing me an extra £4, £8 in food money [Brian took money from his food budget to pay for the weekly transport to Stockport jobcentre]… They closed a lot of jobcentre offices down and shipped people over here.
…it’s the same all over…that’s how it is.
Next week, it will be like just coming in here looking at a computer for jobs…that’s what they do.
I said to the job coach – “what is the point?” I’ve got internet at fricking home. I could save myself money…I pay £2 there and £2 back [on the bus] so it’s £4. It’s like £8 a fortnight, £16 a month.
[They don’t reimburse] for that… [they do for] interviews, or if you’re going on a scheme…like if you’re going to a course, because nobody would go on a course if they didn’t [pay for travel]…this week, it’s just signing on…
When we had the [paper] job applications, I could hand those in. I would hear something back in a couple of days. I either got the job, or I didn’t get the job. I’m applying for five times as many jobs, never hear a thing…it’s all on the computer. You’re not going to get a job just on internet. That’s it.
Even job coach, she said, “have you heard from Careers?” I said, “not a bloody thing.” I said, “she’s supposed to be this brilliant woman to keep in touch and all this and see how we do and see what [how we’re going with looking for a job]”… and I said I’ve not heard a thing since the interview… I said I could do her job better than her. But this is how it is.
She said, “I can’t understand why you’re not getting replies.” I said, “look – when I was back in the 80s, 90s, it was about 15 to one [applying] per job at a rough estimate. Now you’re going for 350 to one. Everybody’s applying for the same fricking jobs, but half of you won’t hear.”
The other thing that gets me with the Universal Jobmatch – you’re looking at the jobs to apply for and they’re in Oldham, Scotland, Manchester. I’m thinking they should be in their own area…it’s stupid, it is.
[Brian talked again about security badges]
Brian: It depends [whether or not the DWP will pay for security badges]. Some people are like, “oh, I got mine full refund.” I think what that is mainly because I applied through a course and used a different company so…
Now, even before you even get anywhere near the badge, you’ve got to have Maths and English. You’ve got to have a photographic ID. I had to buy me own passport and then on top of that, I attended college for the Maths and English.
Then, if they put you through for the course, they might pay for the course, but you have to pay for the badge and that’s a two week course. They paid for bus fares, because I had to do … I failed one part, that was all it was, but I had to go down to fricking Manchester to do the course the exam [that I failed].
If you’ve been out for ten years, you’ll have to get Maths and English and photographic ID. You’ll have to get that first. Then ask the DSS and they could put you on the course to Manchester.
I asked Brian what he thought of Theresa May’s government
Brian: Don’t get me started on politics…on politics, I hate the fuckers. They are more ripoff than a crook…
In another two to three years, I could be on sick permanently, because my hands are getting arthritis…
They found me fit for work. I appealed it. I basically had to go to York [for the tribunal hearing]. I said, “okay, then. If I can’t get to York…” and they’re whinging at me for walking a few yards. How they hell can I get to York for you to tell me…
I had to go tribunal in York… and I had to write a letter to cancel that. I said, “there’s no point. I might as well go back and sign on.
I said, “I can’t afford to get to York. I wouldn’t even go for it…”
It’s gone daft, this country.
I’m not against creed, or race, and I would never insult a person, but I’m sorry – there’s just too many foreigners and they’re all piled up in London.
That’s one thing, but two – they’re not producing enough jobs here in this country. This is why the benefit craze has gone off.
Then, they’re whinging at us to get a job. I say, “why don’t you come and try it from my side of the fence?
I said [to the jobcentre] – “I tell you what. If you’re so concerned about me getting employment, get me a job in here.” Put their money where their fucking mouth is.
It just completely made me absolute laugh, the way they treat me on those things.
I read on google there was one poor young mother – she went on the Universal Credit. She committed suicide because she was afraid of losing her benefits…
Brian left then to attend his jobcentre meeting and show his work coach evidence that he’d been searching for jobs:
When he came out, he said:
“They [jobcentre staff] said, “you’ve been busy.”
I said, “I’m not going to sit still. I’ve got to do something.”
“They said, “there’s a course [you can do]. You might not get on it, but we’ll put your name on it and guide you to what career you want to do.”
I said, “at 54, I’ve got ten years. When my ten years comes up, if I can get ten years work out of me I’ll be…”
I said I’ll have a think about it. I don’t think it will be for me…your name’s got to be picked out of a hat…I’ve got more chance of winning lottery than getting on that…
They said, “if you get on this [course] we’ll get a letter back. You’ll go on this course and they’ll guide you on what you can do…”
I said, “at my age, I’ll be jumping out of airplanes.” I said, “I don’t think…”
I am ex-military… It’s the same with ex-military. They would sooner house foreigners than house an ex-military man sat on street for nothing.
Ex-brother in law, he served over 22 years. Couldn’t get a job after it.
[Was in the army] nearly 16 years. Did me discipline and saw bits of the world, but after it, once your time’s up, that’s it. In them days, they didn’t sort of cool anybody down like they do now. They sort of break ‘em into civvy street now. Some don’t. All those single soldiers are on the street…
I was homeless for four years after I got divorced, but I knew I could survive. I went in the hills. Used to sleep in farmer’s field…
..what really knackered us up… [was that] we had poor schooling. Really bad. It’s hard when you got poor schooling. Basically, it’s just so bad, so I couldn’t get a decent enough job to get a mortgage.
[My schooling] was shit.
I mean – my cousins were lucky. Their dad got a decent job. They bought their own house off the council. He was working away a far time, so he sent my cousins to boarding school.
So, they got a decent education. After they sorted that out, that was it. They got a decent education. I did basics [reading and writing], but it wasn’t anything good.
We were stuck on the same sort of maths that a seven-year-old was and in the end, towards the end of the schooling, I stopped going. Left school. I just found odd jobs – factory jobs, everything jobs. My first job was making wall ties. They go between bricks – so build a wall and basically, I used to make them.
You could always get a job. You could leave on a Friday and start work on a Monday. I quit one job on the Friday after we got paid, and then you got your week in hand, and so I gave them a week’s notice, and on the Friday, I just quit. I collected me both wages and on the Monday, I found another job with another firm.
It’s all protected now…
Even when I was a kid, I was working more or less from the age of 15. I started out – it was nice old fellow. He taught me how to build dry stone wall. By the time I was 16, I had ten men under me and I was earning morning than me dad…
I got referrals. They would say, “there’s this young lad. He doesn’t look old enough to work, but,”…they show all the walls I did and they said, “bloody hell – that looks professional,” and they said, “he doesn’t charge professional rates.” Farmers were richer then. I used to charge them £4 a metre. They [others companies] used [to charge] between four and ten pound a metre. They used to hate me. Then I had to turn work down, because I was busy.”
Okay all – tis Kate here, the lone moderator.
Let’s just keep it cool if we can.
As I’ve said before, I don’t want to have to get into major moderation on this forum, not least because it’s just me here. I don’t believe in regulating conversations between adults and anyway, most of the contributions people make here are excellent.
If we can keep the personal abuse to a minimum, that would be useful.
Hope you’re all enjoying the weather.
Agreed and I do like the heat at all, I would rather live where it is mostly raining.
I enjoy walking slowly in the rain keeps people off the streets and looks cool when everyone else is running for shelter.
Agreed, Sourchimp? Well stop being so intolerant about my faith, then. I’m not on here posting Bible verses or trying to convert you. I respect the fact you’re an atheist and I leave you alone about it. I don’t say your opinion is wrong because you don’t believe in God.
If I have an opinion, it’s my opinion. It’s just as valid as anybody else’s, whether you (or Padi) agree with my religion or not.
N.B. Half the UK population identifies as Christian. We don’t all share uniform views about politics! Even within my own church, there are considerable disagreements about everything from cannabis to welfare.
I am an agnostic if anything not anaesthetist.
Agnostic then.
Anaesthetist? Ha-ha! Great typo!
Must be my medicine kicking in or a Freudian slip had “Religion is the opium of the people” on my mind lol well spotted.
At least that means you’d like to keep it legal.
I hadn’t realized there had been any abuse, but I don’t receive the comments emails anymore for some reason. Been too hot for me today, spent this aft indoors watching tv. I was out & about this morning tho.
Mostly people are great on here. Things sometimes get a bit heated here and there on the longer threads. Not often.
I was in the CAB yesterday for help/advice with debt. I had to use a phone in there to speak to a debt adviser in an office upstairs. She said she’d have to ask me a few questions & began with ” are you getting jsa?” I said yes, next question threw me a bit,x”are you actively seeking work?”. Why did she ask that? Is Conditionality infecting te world of debt advice noww too? The notion of the undeserving poor, at the CAB? Is nothing sacred? Pointless question anyway, wwhoc *who* is going to say no I’m a Skiver?
Yep I used the CAB online chat a couple of years ago and spoke to one guy and in the end I had to up correct him on something cannot remember what exactly but it was very misleading advice if I had took it, he agreed he was wrong and misread his notes.
The only CAB in our city was shut a few years ago.
When I went to the Citizens Advice Bureau, the advisor didn’t know a lot of things. He had to consult the internet and his textbooks. We came up with a plan in the end.
The thing is, it’s not black and white. DWP pull this or that. The advisor has to look it up. Sometimes, the advice is to try this or that. Put in an appeal. See what happens.
What they do is offer ideas, suggest further research and consider what has worked for other people they have helped.
Sounds odd.
We’ve had some changes to the Citizens Advice Bureau round here, too. You can’t turn up any more – you have to book an appointment over the telephone first. There are reports of people waiting on the telephone for an hour and getting no answer.
It struck me as being an odd question to specifcally ask, having already established that I am claiming & in receipt of JSA.
I hope it wasn’t George on the other end of the phone :/
George Smith?
No idea of the surname trev it was someone I assumed Alison knew personally.
Ha-ha! Sourchimp still thinks we’re all conspiring…
I don’t remember the surname. The guy said he was a benefit adviser. “Paul” said you can’t be sanctioned if you do 3 steps a week and the benefit adviser was trying to explain that people DO get sanctioned for not doing more. “Paul” had no time for him and dismissed his personal experience rather harshly, I thought, just because it didn’t match his own.
Oh I thought you mean t IDS ! Real name Geor ge Smith.
IDS working for the the CAB is about as surreal a idea as Esther Mcvey working for the Samaritans .
Volunteering, dear boy! Always good to keep your toe in the world of work!
IDS was plain old George Smith, and his middle name is Ian (or Iain), but to make himself sound posher or more important he dropped the George and added the Duncan. So his name is almost as fictitious as his CV.
George Osborne on the other hand was originally called Gideon but changed it to George.
As for Grant Shapps (aka Sebastian Fox aka Michael Green) his real name is anybody’s guess (Mr. Anybody’s Guess).
Never trust a Tory.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Never trust a Tory!
The rest of us have one name we’ve always had.
Yeh I do the same thing, change my name quite often, I just inform everyone whatever I choose at the time, that is what I want to be called by now.
Quite funny when they call out a Mr dole Waller at the JCP.
Have you seen on the Simpsons when the boys ring the pub and ask for a made-up name that sounds genuine until the bartender calls it out and all the customers laugh?
Presumably you’re right in thinking they’re trying to crack down on people not looking for work and taking up advice time. Maybe they’re trying to establish the rules from the start. Or maybe the government criticised them. Who knows?
Trev, it sounds to me like you are definitely looking for work. Yet you have health problems. I’m glad to hear you’re going to get some advice.
Well I’m trying to sort my debts out as a matter of priority. Debt is like a millstone around your neck.
I own nothing that cannot go in a rucksack so debt is not a problem for me I have had many fun times with Mr no powers at all debt collectors and bailiffs will not come here again they know there is nothing to take.
Consumer forums a good place to get help online sort out debt many good people on there if you have anything of value to protect who can help you reduce or in a lot of cases get them dropped.
If its your bank change bank.
It sounds like a good idea. Citizens Advice are experts on debt.
i don’t own anything of any value bu t theyre after money I don’t have & it’s a drag, not a nice position to be in. So there’s a chance of a grant to settle i t all .
I just ignore it all, do not engage with them at all, do not read the letters and bin them it becomes an habit after a while and doesn’t sit on my conscience at all, cannot hang me(yet), then 6 years later I have a clean record.
What can the bailiffs do if I own nothing of value and debt collectors have no power whatsoever.
I have done this every 6 years or so since left home got 3 more years left before I am clean again.
A lot of debt gets sold on for pennies compared to the amount outstanding and if anyone’s daft enough to buy my debt, good luck to them.
I’m surprised anyone’s daft enough to keep lending to you!
I would listen to Citizens Advice. I can’t say I’d listen to Sourchimp.
Forgot to post a link to the CAB online Chat easy enough to find but I like to go that extra yard.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/contact-us/web-chat-service/
Ok thanks for that, it might come in useful for someone but now I’m registered with them I’l be dealing in person or on the phone from now on.
I also withdrawn the implied right the for the TV guys to come to my door, haven’t bothered me in years and get no letters, but then I do not watch TV so I am being honest, can you remember the bullshit lies they spread when they used to say TV detector van in your area
What did you do to get rid of the letters? Tape your letter box shut?
Everybody gets letter from the TV people, no matter how many times they’ve come round to visit. I know because my mum had no TV for years and I didn’t have one at my first flat either.
Alison, Fact: they do not send letters at all to my home address nor do they visit.
Why are you getting in a strop about it? Calm down. Nobody accused you of lying. I was expressing surprise, Sourchimp.
Yet you accuse everybody else of lying…Double standards, eh?
Alison your statement “Everybody gets letter from the TV people” as a statement of fact suggest to me you were saying I was lying.
Thank you for the clarification.
If you regarded my reply as a stroppy response then may I clarify I was merely pointing out a fact based on my own personal experience.
“The TV haven’t bothered me in years and get no letters”
We were discussing these TV Licence letters at lunch after church today. An elderly couple get them at their holiday cottage.
Just observations about people’s anecdotes. No judgement intended.
Curious how you stopped the letters coz it sounds quite an achievement, considering this elderly couple couldn’t stop them for 25 years! Wondered if you wrote something very clever. But hey – maybe they can screen out low-income postcodes and leave them alone. Who knows?
Taping the letter box = joke
I live in a semi rural suburb, the locals still call it a village, it is one of the most affluent and sought after areas in my City.
I simply informed the TV licensing people that I withdraw the implied consent for them to visit my home and not to send unsolicited post to my address.
They complied and not received a visit or a letter since.
I don’t seem to get those letters anymore, not for ages. Maybe it’s due to spending cuts & they can’t afford to police it or enforce it properly any more?
They sent a letter to a neighbour saying an inspector tried to visit.
They got bad press for harassing people who couldn’t pay, so maybe they leave poor people alone now.
I have a letter from the TV people confirming my request however I do not have a scanner or phone to upload.
That’s OK. I believe you, Sourchimp. Glad you found something that worked.
I live 300 metres as the crow flies from the only church for miles to have any actual working bells.
2 days a week,every week they have a group of bell ringers gather and for 4 hours they practice all the peels whatever.
I cannot screen out the noise at all even with all the windows shut and they are double glazed.
I have recently complained to the vicar and suggested they get a bill ringing simulator ( yes there is such a thing) but it fell on deaf ears (no doubt due to all the bell ringing)
When I have the time I will be solving this issue, I would rather listen to a mosques calls to prayers than this racket.
Ha-ha-ha-ha!
We do 30 minutes of bell-ringing twice a week and there’s further bell-ringing for events like weddings. We had a 3-hour session once, but that’s not the norm round here. Many churchgoers thought it was too long.
I’m surprised you haven’t got a local mosque yet. They’re nearly as common as churches now.
Personally, I love the sound of church bells. Being a Christian, I expect that’s no surprise to you. With your views on religion, I don’t suppose you appreciated being reminded of our presence. Maybe they’ll build a new airport or motorway and it’ll drown out the church bells for you.
Noise pollution is noise pollution regardless of the source or cause but not apparently not when it comes from a church in some cases they had had protections put in place to protect against noise complaints.
I’m doubly screwed now, got debt payments going out of my bank account today but nothing in to cover them ’til my JSA goes in tomorrow. Just got a txt off the bank telling me to deposit funds today to avoid incurring bank charges for going overdrawn. Doesn’t say how much charges but I think it might be £30, which will leave me short of food for coming fortnight as I also have to pay electric, water, & Council Tax out of tomorrow’s JSA payment, so I’m screwed basically.
I never have DD for the same reason your facing a problem now, costs can spiral out of control not only will the bank hit you but also say whoever tries to take the money out would also probably charge you being knocked back.
You can legally have more than 1 bank account and many have a basic service that will not let you go OD and no charges for not having funds if they refuse a DD.
They do not credit check you just need some ID and your in like halifax basic account.
They do not advertise this for obvious reasons but many banks now have basic no frill accounts.
If you not on PAYG meter yet have your gas and electric taken directly from benefits saves running out any debt can be paid back at small amount overtime.
Cancel all DD asap get new bank account purely for benefits, then if not a priority bill anything that not brown cant hang you for it and if your not interested in getting into any more debt is the best thing imo then sit back relax no more millstone around.
^^^^^^^anything not brown envelope bin
Generally in my experience go in your bank explain the situation and get them to setup a easy repayment for charges if this is the first time you have had missed a DD they can and often do waiver it for the first time.
Then scarper to another bank
Forgot to say water bills is never a priority bill and the only power they have is to send a letter they cannot cut you off.
Whoooo scary letters lol bring them on I say !
Also Trev it’s worth keeping in mind that if your total debts amount to less than £5,000 you may qualify for an Administration Order where your debts are combined and you pay a small amount every month through the County Court.
You have to have at least one unpaid CCJ and at least two debts – but that’s not such a tall order for people who have little or nothing in the first place.
It’s worth doing, as your creditors cannot hassle you further once th AO is in place, if they do, all you have to do is contact the court and they will deal with them. It’s sometimes necessary to have to go to a hearing, but it’s quite an informal process, and the judge is likely to be on your side.
If it’s the first time you’re applying for an AO I’d suggest that you get the CAB or another advice provider to help you fill the form in correctly. If you can, go for what’s called a composition order, as this limits the amount of time the AO is in force, and once that time is up you will have satisfied the conditions of the AO.
Then it’s just a wait of six years before your credit history is wiped clean! If you don’t get a composition order you could end up paying the AO for years and years, until all the debt is repaied, but fortunately even if you don’t get a composition order, the AO is usually reviewed after a year, and you can also apply to have it changed to a composition order. there aren’t any up front fees, the court claims 10% of the monthly amount you pay once the order is in place.
It’s also really worth keeping up with the payments on the AO as they are usually very small, especially if you’re on benefits and they do stop all the annoying letters, telephone calls and threatened visits and actual visits from debt collectors etc.
Agree that is a far better alternative than those debt management plans, IVA and declaring bankruptcy if the circumstance apply.
your debt will also increase by 10% for court fees so a £4000 debt will add a further £400 to the overall bill.
But It is also worth contacting creditors first and challenge the amount owed, often they have brought the debt and do not hold the correct paperworkor made unlawful charges or will reduce the amount owed if challenged and at the end of the day you can pay a nominal amount each month £1 to each creditor if you feel you do not want to be seen as avoiding debt.
Personally I just go quiet saves all the hassle and achieves basically the same result but without any cost.
Obviously I do not take the same stand with friends but if someone spams my Email or home with offers I cannot refuse nor afford and gives me a line of credit then they are in the wrong, not me, that is not responsible lending !
Cheers guys. I’ve handed it all over to CAB to deal with now. Might be able to qualify for a Charis ? or Chartris? grant, apparently.
Not sure if these are them http://www.charisgrants.com/ not heard of them be before be interested to know if they are any help I have tried a few but as a single male on JSA I am excluded from many as they do not see me as a priority nor vulnerable.
Thing is mine supposedly IS a basic no-frills Bank account (with no overdraft facility). I didn’t have a Bank account for a few years, after I defaulted on a Student account overdraft years ago (that I still owe). But in the end it isn’t just a Banking issue, nor is it one of Budgeting, it all boils down to the fact that no one can adequately live on 70 quid a week. The Government knows it, they couldn’t live on 70 quid, they probably spend more than that on their dinners, or just on wine to wash down their dinners. By now JSA should be at least £100 p/w (or maybe £110/120) and Min. Wage £10 p/h.
ps
Looks like I might have got away with the Bank charges this time….phew!
Got my JSA yesterday, got bugger-all left now, just enough in Bank to pay my Council Tax next week and a tenner left over, and another fortnight to go….
Happy to note you got it sorted to degree, it is just another example of how living live on a knife edge can be, if I get no money I am stuffed, the only foodbank is 8 mile walk and only open 2 days a week and you need a voucher.
Single male over 24 tends to get less sympathy than other groups and more likely to be claiming JSA or UC and suffer the full weight of the punitive benefit system.
If you get no money, you’ll have no “medicine” either! Oh no! You’d better go in that “job room”, Sourchimp!
Alison I am keen gardener and won a few awards, I also belong to a group of like minded individuals that believe we have a right to choose what we do with our own bodies.
Not sure where you are getting all you pre conceived ideas from but they do seem all tinged with bitterness for some reason, known only to your good self.
Come on, Sourchimp, I was teasing you here – and making the fair point you also raised about needing money to buy what you use for medical purposes. I wouldn’t recommend buying cannabis, but I wouldn’t recommend going cold turkey, either.
Gardening – great!
Bitterness? None.
Gardening awards – well done! (Best Bloom? Biggest Marrow? Best Herb Garden? (ha-ha?))
I expect the gardening know-how comes in handy for growing vegetables, too.
I could have gone to our garden today to dig up the weeds, but everyone else is busy and the heat is making me very lazy.
No such thing as a weed just a plant in the wrong place !
Well unofficial awards aside I won the best Eco friendly garden for the year in my local Area and the following year came second in a champion of champions best garden competition, hardly RHS stuff but made me happy.
Very good!
Yes, a “weed” is simply a plant in the wrong place. I’ve heard that one at gardening before (as well as the desire to cultivate your favourite plant). I have a lot of plants to move…
If the Jobcentre keep on at you about the job room, you could always agree to attend a gardening course.
No need, after speaking to the manager I am now the official spokesperson for the great unwashed , they want me to go see them before signing have a look and give them feedback.
I told them I would be open and honest in my critique and they said they were happy to receive it.
So a 5000 word thesis of what all is wrong with the whole system is in the pipeline as well as dealing with my complaint re; the security guard my time is pretty much taken up.
Forgot to mention they said well we have vacancies you might not about, oh yeh like what ? well we have one in today wiring electrical looms no experience training on the job just good colour vision.
Oh right that job gets offered to me every other week if you look on my notes I am colour blind, battle ship sunk.
I also have a fear of heights on my notes.
Both accepted without argument or evidence, now when it comes to Ergophobia different story but equally as debilitating.
Glad you reached a compromise. However, I observe they found a way to get you into the job room, didn’t they?
Fair point and I would agree but I intend to hand over my thesis in the form of a formal complaint letter and not go in the scary jobroom at all until I have,
1, Signed on declared there are no change of circumstances and discussed verbally my previous fortnights 6 steps which is the sole purpose of my visit
Then I will decide to go in or not through choice.
I know exactly what is in there, they are just keeping up the pressure on jobseekers becuase they are short staffed due to training for UC and so fill the gap and invite third party piranhas to attend so they can earn their filthy lucre and the JCP seem to be doing something.
If I were an investigative journalist I would look into some connections between these providers and the links with some managers at the JCP, to me I am sure there is money changing hands in the background.
Also I am a danger to myself and the DWP in a forced group environment I have a right to privacy.
You might think all this is trivial but far from it, They assume they have absolute power, and they do not, it is as simple as that and I aim to resist at any price Alison 🙂
Jumping from 1 form of poverty to another is silly !
No, better not to jump into the job room, then. Don’t bring your pogo stick! (Ha-ha?)
Same boat here trev lets, look at a typical jsa single over 24 finances.
JSA £73.00 pw
Gas and Electric £20.00
Rates £3.50
Water £4.00
Budgeting loan £7.50
Internet/phone £5.00
wash powder/soap/ etc £8.00
Tobacco £5.00
Total Outgoings : £48.00 PW
Leaves £25.00 Per Week for food, emergencies and job search.
Typically travel to a interview will cost me £5-£10 and the JCP wil not provide an advance only a refund and that means for me a total 8 mile walk to reclaim.
As I buy food in bulk to save money I do not have any money in my pocket day after getting paid so no way to find £5-£10 to travel anywhere even if I did get an interview.
£8 a week on soap? How much soot are you producing? Time to cut down, Sourchimp!
Where’s your cannabis money in your budget anyway? Or is that what you mean by “tobacco”? Or “soap”?
Alison you need to look at what I am saying before you leap
“a typical jsa single over 24 finances.”
I am not typical and I could have increased the outgoings by adding TV license and debt repayments.
£8 per week includes soap.toothpaste,wash powder, washing up liquid, cleaning fluids,toilet rolls, razors luckily I do not need sanitary towels.
Again I am giving an example of a typical JSA single over 24 finances not exactly mine !
Hard to say what’s typical, really. I’m not sure I spend £8 a week on all the things you mention (I’d call them toiletries). I think TV Licence is fairly universal, though. That’s £12.50 per month. Debt is also very common, especially with people having mysterious overpayments removed from their Universal Credit.
I only have 2 main shops that are local and charge high prices, to get to a store like pound land I would be spending £5 just to get there.
Mm. Yes. That’s not so great. Good point, Sourchimp. People pay more if they have no car/can’t afford the bus/can’t walk far. Again, the poor and disabled get hit the hardest.
And you have raised a good point, is it reasonable that given all the evidence regarding the health benefits of Cannabis, I and others like me are unable to afford or more sensibly legally grow a health giving, life saving medicine due to a ban on nature.
Cannabis=zero deaths
It is my choice no one else’s how I choose to manage my life.
OK sorry to poke fun a bit here. All meant in good humour.
I agree with your point about benefits being very low. Not just Jobseeker’s Allowance, but also Housing Benefit if you have to live in private rental (because you can’t get a council house). Many people, including me, pay some rent from other benefits because Housing Benefit doesn’t cover it all.
Apart from the soap, your numbers are pretty accurate.
Yes, they probably spend £70 on a bottle of wine.
Very sorry to hear this, Trev. Have you had your appointment with Citizens Advice yet?
I’ve set the ball rolling, filled the forms in (took 4&half hours!) & returned them so they’re dealing with it now.
Well done for finishing the mammoth forms!
P.S. I wish Google would piss off with their annoying ‘doodles’ that then open up in error when I try to click in the search box. I’m not interested in the bloody World Cup Google, or in anything else that you want to ‘educate’ me in.
Do you ever get the feeling art sometimes mimics life.
A self-perpetuating autocracy
King Arthur: Old woman!
Dennis: Man.
King Arthur: Man, sorry. What knight lives in that castle over there?
Dennis: I’m 37.
King Arthur: What?
Dennis: I’m 37. I’m not old.
King Arthur: Well I can’t just call you “man”.
Dennis: Well you could say “Dennis”.
King Arthur: I didn’t know you were called Dennis.
Dennis: Well you didn’t bother to find out, did you?
King Arthur: I did say sorry about the “old woman”, but from behind you looked…
Dennis: What I object to is you automatically treat me like an inferior.
King Arthur: Well, I am king.
Dennis: Oh, king eh? Very nice. And how’d you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers. By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society. If there’s ever gonna be any progress…
Peasant Woman: Dennis! There’s some lovely filth down here… Oh! How do you do?
[Dennis joins the Peasant Woman in the nearby filth patch]
King Arthur: How do you do, good lady? I am Arthur, king of the Britons. Whose castle is that?
Peasant Woman: King of the who?
King Arthur: The Britons.
Peasant Woman: Who’re the “Britons”?
King Arthur: Well, we all are. We’re all Britons, and I am your king.
Peasant Woman: Didn’t know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.
Dennis: You’re fooling yourself. We’re living in a dictatorship! A self-perpetuating autocracy, in which the working classes…
Peasant Woman: Oh, there you go, bringing class into it again.
Dennis: Well, that’s what it’s all about! If only people would–
King Arthur: Please, please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Peasant Woman: No one lives there.
King Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Peasant Woman: We don’t have a lord.
King Arthur: What?
Dennis: I told you, we’re an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as sort of executive officer for the week…
King Arthur: Yes…
Dennis: …but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting…
King Arthur: Yes I see…
Dennis: …by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs…
King Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: …but by a two thirds majority in the case of more…
King Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
Peasant Woman: “Order”, eh? Who does he think he is?
King Arthur: I am your king.
Peasant Woman: Well, I didn’t vote for you.
King Arthur: You don’t vote for kings.
Peasant Woman: Well, how’d you become king, then?
[Angelic music plays…]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. That is why I am your king.
Dennis: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: You can’t expect to wield supreme executive power just ’cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: I mean, if I went around saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d put me away!
Arthur: [grabs Dennis] Shut up! Will you shut up?!
Dennis: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system!
Arthur: [shakes Dennis] Shut up!
Dennis: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I’m being repressed!
Arthur: Bloody Peasant!
Dennis: Ooh, what a giveaway! Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That’s what I’m on about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn’t you?
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grail
Yes, determining male/female isn’t too easy on the internet, unless people post with an obviously male or female name.
Yes, it’s true that different people interpret different things as abuse/repression.
To give you credit, I thought the passage you select was indeed an apt reflection of life on the internet. Whether you intended it to represent that, I’m not certain.
We’d all get along better if we all met down the pub…
I do not drink alcohol, I have as much objection about alcohol that you do about Cannabis.
I have drunk in the past so I can say I have an objective opinion, last time was 4-5 years ago, I like real strong ales like the bishops finger or Barley wine shandies………..strong stuff a barley wine shandy
I have never had a drink problem I just do not like the effects and can go decades not drinking but if your happy to share some Cannabis with me I would be happy have a drink with you.
I can only say alcohol makes my mind go fuzzy unfocused and that’s me done for the day, with Cannabis is focuses my mind and I can operate normally it does not come with any side affects.
A hangover or side effects is natures way of telling your body it has been poisoned
Theakston’s OldPeculier is good one if you like real ale, but one bottle is enough for me. Also, look out for Magic Rock beers, a micro-brewery just down the road from me, their Stouts are something special.
I don’t hit the bottle much these days. My sin is coffee – iced, at the moment. £2.60 – OW!!! Free internet 🙂 Had a row when they tried to charge me £3.40. Now there’s an atmosphere when I walk in…
Strange you mentioned old peculiar used to get it on draught in the late eighties was trying to think what it was called the other day.
Yep lot of great sounding and tasting micro breweries, I hope when the laws changed I can setup a micro business working from home producing unique types of cannabis by breeding different strains, thus having the ability to compete with the big boys who will inevitably spring up.
Shortage of gas – except on this forum (joke – ha-ha)
Can’t be long before someone makes a Cannabis Beer
Not really an imaginative title but I would call it,
Canna beer and obviously only available in cans.
Haven’t they done that in the Netherlands yet?
https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/food-and-drink/british-brewery-releases-beer-infused-with-cannabis-oil/
It’s only the non-psychoactive bit of cannabis. So you can’t get stoned if you drink it.
My friend’s friend’s mind has been destroyed by cannabis. It’s difficult to doubt personal experience.
Yes not something that would interest me really although hops and cannabis are closely related some weed I have smells very hoppy like a decent real ale.
It is not just the active ingredients that makes me support the legalisation of cannabis.
It could also replace the plastics packaging industry and is bio degradable.
Personally I think anything can trigger mental health and that cannabis can be safely used to treat mental issues based on the latest research.
Perhaps you could adapt an old recipe for making Nettle Beer?
Nettles have health-giving properties, Sourchimp.
Nettles do indeed have healing properties, I have always advised people brushing them on arthritic limbs, can do wonders and help bring back feelings and give some relief, I am sure there are other benefits but that is the main one I know of.
Nothing beats the bottle of home-made beer someone from church gave me once!
Life imitating Art imitating Life, or is it the other way around?
“Anti-mimesis is a philosophical position that holds the direct opposite of Aristotelian mimesis. Its most notable proponent is Oscar Wilde, who opined in his 1889 essay The Decay of Lying that, “Life imitates Art far more than Art imitates Life”. In the essay, written as a Platonic dialogue, Wilde holds that anti-mimesis “results not merely from Life’s imitative instinct, but from the fact that the self-conscious aim of Life is to find expression, and that Art offers it certain beautiful forms through which it may realise that energy.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imitating_art
I got a nosebleed trying to follow all that debate in the wiki.
Reminded me of the quote
“The man was such an intellectual he was of almost no use.”
― Georg Christoph Lichtenberg
Haha! 🙂
There’s a demo in support of the NHS this Saturday (30 June) in London, starting at noon on Portland Place.
I expect there are similar demos elsewhere in the UK – sorry I don’t have a web link to hand.
Let us just hope there are no accidents during the protest.
No
Hope
Surviving
I saw about tha t demo elsewhere on web, some are taking the opportunity to pro tes t agains t the Tories in general- Austerity etc. Could all kick off.
Sorry I didn’t attend. Hiding from the sun. Poor excuse, I know.
Work is so shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5T42oQBKDc&feature=youtu.be
Probably would have got more hits if set in the JCP or WP offices.
Bad temper is contagious in the office environment and those in the other side of the desk tend to be the victims of this stress and bad temper.
It depends. Good temper is also contagious and some people are very attractive!
I watched a tv documentary about serial killers last night, Dennis Nilsen used to work in the Jobcentre!
He obviously must have had the right qualification and mental attitude.
Yes, a Psychopath. It’s a prerequisite for jobs at the DWP.
I know someone through church who’s a work coach at a Jobcentre.
I know someone who was a work coach but left on moral grounds and now fights to help those who are victims of the sanction regime.
They work for free AND won all the battles they have fought.
My guru and mentor 🙂
Good for him/her.
I think Jeremy Corbyn is visiting my forum, in question time public transport was debated.
I have been asking this very question over the last 2 weeks.
https://killwelfaresanctionskill.org/forum/general-questions/request-for-a-change-in-my-claimant-commitment-and-request-for-postal-signing/
It only takes me 30 mins. to walk to the Jobcentre but even that’s a drag in Winter when it’s pouring with rain or snow. Or just when my feet hurt, as they sometimes do.
During the last big snowfall took me 5 hours to walk to the job centre and back.
I don’t mind walking in the rain as much as I do in hot weather.
How long does the journey normally take you?
I thought they had to let you sign on by post if you live more than an hour from the Jobcentre?
Hour by bus in either direction or 3 miles walking either direction if no public transport is available my argument is with no funds public transport is not available to me.
Agreed – they should give you a free bus pass.
All jobseekers should be given free bus passes, the conservatives were laughing in parliament at labour for bringing the rising cost of transport up for workers.
Benefit freezes rising food and transport costs are making it impossible for singles on JSA over 24s to survive.
It is mainly men who are in this group and no surprise suicide rates are high !
Yes, the Tories laugh whenever anyone mentions people suffering (and dying) due to NHS and welfare cuts
It’s a mixed blessing, though, Trev, because a long, brisk walk does your health a world of good.
I always find that I warm up in the winter by going for a walk. It’s the only break I get from the endless cold. I can open the top window while I’m out to get the damp out.
What the…? I just got an email from Indeed saying “1 new Picker/Packer job in Halifax” but when I opened it they have sent me two (not one) Picker/Packer jobs, one in Selby, North Yorks. , the other in Heywood, Lancs. neither of which are anywhere remotely near Halifax!
Yep if you compare Find a job 160,000 to say indeed,total 1.6 million vacancies you have to ask yourself which is the true reflection of the current job market.
Halifax has only had 17 vacancies in the last 14 days at 10k earnings according to find a job, that is pretty low compared to where I am at 310 vacancies in the last 14 days using the same search perimeters.
I just cannot get to them that are suitable.
I had that experience on Universal Jobmatch. There was an ad for a job at London Zoo, but, when I clicked on the link, it took me to something totally different.
I find these internet job sites pretty ghastly most of the time. “Somewhere in London there is a job that involves some sort of gardening.” London is a huge place. I need to know a bit more – and I’d really prefer to go have a look at the place first.
Agency work is like that: go here, go there… Wait for a telephone call first thing in the morning telling you where to go for work. If there’s no telephone call, there’s no work. My dad used to wake up at 7am and listen for the phone. If it didn’t ring by 8am, he went back to sleep.
That’s why I’ve always applied for work through the newspaper and window ads and even cold-calling doctor and dentist surgeries. I did find my first paid job by cold-calling all the surgeries I could find in the local phone books and one had a vacancy.
Just seen a vacancy on Find A Job that says in the description “Please note only apply if interested in job as once offered interview non attenders will be reported.” !
i too have had enough im 64 soon,worked from 10 doing a paper round then weekend work left school at 16 went to sainsburys, thinking would retire at 60 . Nearly 64 have artritis and had lots of fractures have got osteoporosis have got a job at coop but had to cut hours to 8 after last back fracture ,but they r making me go to the job centre every 2 weeks although hsve a job and am waiting for medical which had before and gave me 0 points ,but my doctor said if it was up to him he would have signed me off ., who r these people we see on these medicals they r not doctors thats for sure , it is a disgrace thats why did not vote conservative im mortified and let down and very low .
Why do the dole aka jobcentre always on my back. I can’t do anything without their noses being in my life and business. I have had enough of being spied on and being on the de but it seems that I’m there for a long time as I haven’t got a job and can’t work due to having a condition called hiatal hernia. I need to be left alone and do what I want to do. I dont need help from the jobcentre.