Redundancy, DWP debt deductions and shambolic DWP bureaucracy: more interviews from foodbanks

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Image of DWP letter and envelopeOn Friday, I recorded three long interviews with people who came in to Oldham foodbank for food parcels: Andrew, 51, Annemarie, 41 (both surnames withheld for these articles) and a woman who spoke at length about her problems with Universal Credit, but did not want to give her name.

I’ve posted the transcript from the interview with Andrew below.

I’ll post the other two this week when I’ve transcribed them.

 

Common points in all three interviews:

All three people were having money deducted by the DWP directly from their benefits for debts they disputed. This is so common now that it is standard. People run out of money because debt deductions at source mean they never get a full benefit payment. They never get close to breaking even each month and so can never fix financial problems. The DWP deducts money from benefits for social fund loans people insist they’ve paid back, benefit overpayments people say they don’t owe, and, increasingly, tax credit debts which the DWP has inherited from the HMRC and now aggressively claws back from Universal Credit claimants without warning.

All three people had also struggled mightily to navigate the DWP’s complex bureaucracy.

You’ll see examples of both problems in Andrew’s story (the interview transcript is at the end of this post):

Andrew, 51, had a severe hearing impairment. He’d spent the last 17 years of his working life on the production line and then as a floor manager in Parks Bakery (I think he said Parks. His speech was clear in places and less so in others. He read lips well. I wrote out some words as we went along).

Andrew was made redundant about five years ago. It seemed that was when the problems took off – another common story. Redundancy marks the start of the downward spiral for many people. This is hardly surprising. You’re dreaming if you think it’ll be different for you [unless you are well off, of course]. Andrew said he began to struggle with depression and drink, as people do when the work goes and they’re older, disabled and living in an area where jobs are scarce. Returning to solvency and good times in these situations is not quite the slamdunk that welfare reformers would have you believe.

Andrew was now “living off my overdraft.”

He was a good bloke to hang out with – wry. He said that his immediate problem was getting the DWP to understand that he didn’t have the several grand in savings that the DWP kept insisting he had. He said that trying to get this across to the DWP was a challenge nobody had yet been equal to. He kept rolling his eyes as he told the story. He said that he was losing about £14 from each of his Employment and Support Allowance payments in deductions for overpayments. You’ll see in the transcript below that he talked about different figures at different points. That is common, too. People struggle to keep up with the different amounts they’re paid and the varying deductions and costs, especially if they have support needs.

“…yeah [if only]… I’ve been living on my overdraft for the past five years.” He showed me the letter the DWP had sent about the money, several months’ worth of bank statements which showed his overdraft and account-draining bank charges and a Freepost envelope for sending the bank statements to the DWP. He’d been to the jobcentre with the papers. He said the woman he saw at the jobcentre made the changes to his savings information on a computer (“I can’t use it [computers]), but that something had obviously gone wrong, because the DWP had sent this new letter.

“I’ve already been down jobcentre and they did it online and that’s not got through.”

Andrew had also experienced problems with his Personal Independence Payment application.

A foodbank volunteer stopped at our table to tell me that she’d rung the PIP helpline to arrange application forms for Andrew – and got an officer who kept insisting on speaking to Andrew on the phone even though he can’t hear.

The foodbank volunteer said:

“When I was sending out for a PIP form for Andrew, the woman at the other end of the phone – he doesn’t do text speak – she was saying, “why do[n’t] you put him on the phone?”… I said, “I’m supporting this man. He is profoundly deaf… [She said] “has he got a phone?” [I’m like] “No, because he can’t hear you.” Ultimately, she was fine, but she didn’t have the breadth of aspect… [experience] to understand.”

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: benefit application and management systems are atrocious. It is shocking to know that these are the systems that people in the greatest need must deal with.

Often they can’t.

Here’s the transcript. It has been edited in parts.

Andrew, 13 October 2017, Oldham foodbank:

“They [the DWP] said I had this [amount of savings] in my bank account. They been knocking me money down. They’ve been taking… they said I had this in me bank account…[Andrew showed me his bank statements and the letter the DWP had sent him]. They’re going back a long time…they’ve only [gone and] done it twice. It were doing me head in. My bank’s overdrawn. I’ve been living on my overdraft for the past five years… that’s the overdraft…

I’ll post it, yeah. I have to post it to them….I’ve already been down jobcentre and they did it online and that’s not got through.

A woman did it down there for me [made the changes to Andrew’s savings record on his benefits account at the jobcentre] because I can’t use it [computers] and I’ve already done it twice. You can’t get it down at jobcentre…[unclear]

Continue reading →

Learning/literacy difficulties & can’t use online Universal Credit? “Find a friend to help,” says DWP. This is dire

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Yesterday, I rang the Universal Credit helpline number (0345 600 4272) to ask about DWP support for Universal Credit claimants who have learning and literacy difficulties, and who struggle to use computers. (I’ve posted a transcript of a recording I made of the call at the end of this article).

This is crucial.

Universal Credit is an online system which claimants must manage online. There is a charged-for helpline which people can call if they get stuck. The charges for this are controversial. People who have no money can’t afford the calls.

Readers of this site will know I’ve spent much time with benefit claimants who have learning and literacy difficulties and/or can’t use computers. I’ve taken videos which show people struggling to even switch a computer on. Even before Universal Credit, these people were in no position to carry out online jobsearch activities.

The advice I was given over the phone yesterday for people in these situations was utterly unacceptable. It showed the DWP has absolutely no concept of the challenges and isolation people in these situations experience.

The officer even said that one option that the DWP is supposed to offer to people with support needs – making a Universal Credit application over the phone – should be seen as a “last resort,” was “not ideal” and that there were potential security problems with it. You’ll see that in the transcript.

I called because I know a man with learning and literacy difficulties who may be rehoused from London to Manchester at some stage (I’ve written many stories about this man’s jobcentre access difficulties in the past three years). I wanted to know about the DWP support he’d receive if he needed to apply for and manage an online Universal Credit account. I also wanted that information generally.

As I say, the DWP’s advice on the phone was unacceptable. I’ve listed reasons why below.

The DWP told me that people with access issues had three options. In my view, there were major problems with all of them. Remember – this is the advice people are given when they ring Universal Credit over the phone. This is not a finessed statement from a press office.

The DWP said:

1) The best option for people with learning and literacy difficulties was to find a friend or family member who could make and manage a Universal Credit application.

This was extraordinary. Readers of this site will know I’ve interviewed people who literally have nobody to provide that sort of support. I’ve made benefit and reclaim applications, discretionary housing payment applications and written benefit appeal letters for people because of it. Family members also struggle with the Universal Credit system, just by the way.

2) The DWP could help people make and manage an application over the phone – BUT the officer said this option was a “last resort” and “not ideal” because there was no special system in place for it.

He said Universal Credit officers just created an account as though they were the applicant and had access to usernames and passwords.

He also seemed to say there were potential security issues around that, because: “obviously, that data [usernames and passwords] is out there and we’ve got that as well as the claimant.”

3) People could contact Citizens Advice for help.

This was extraordinary too. When you go to the Citizens’ Advice website, you’re told to contact Universal Credit if you have access problems.Getting help from the CAB can be very difficult generally, because they’re so oversubscribed. I’ve queued at CAB offices with people to make appointments, only to be told by 9am that all appointments for the day had gone. People actually get angry now when you suggest they contact their local CAB, because they’ve already tried and failed.

I also note that the CAB site says people can make an application to the DWP in person. This wasn’t offered as an option in my phone call yesterday.

Continue reading →

Video: Learning and literacy difficulties and need to drop a sick note to the jobcentre? Too bad. You’re banned. Get out

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Here’s one you should see: a recent* video which shows a woman with learning and literacy difficulties being told to Get Out of Kilburn jobcentre – even though she needed to drop off an all-important sick note at the jobcentre.

I post this to show you how unpleasant things can be at these places for long-term unemployed people who have support needs. People in these situations really are at the bottom of the pile. They have no power and absolutely no means of challenging the DWP.

I hate that.

The woman, Linda (name changed. I’ve written about her many times) is in her 50s. The day I took the video, Linda, as I say, needed the jobcentre to accept a sick note she had from her doctor. She risked sanctions if the jobcentre did not accept the note.

Nonetheless, the jobcentre adviser we saw refused to take the sick note.

That was because Linda was serving a ban from Kilburn jobcentre for losing her temper through sheer frustration and upset. Aggressive outbursts from people in Linda’s situation are inevitable.

We’ll get to that.

The story:

Linda has signed on at Kilburn jobcentre for years. They know her well there – probably too well, in the sense that familiarity in these places can breed contempt. Linda’s a permanent fixture. She’s a target for the DWP’s institutional contempt because of that. I’ve seen people act as though she’s annoyingly underfoot. Like a lot of older, long-term unemployed people with learning difficulties and deteriorating health (Linda’s had blood clots and deep vein thrombosis, and can’t walk far) Linda is very unlikely to find work. She’s stuck in the benefits system at a time when contempt for people who rely on that system is rife.

She is perfectly aware of that contempt. She responds in kind.

Which leads us to the ban.

Earlier this year, Linda was banned from the jobcentre for losing her temper and and raging at staff. I’ve spoken to an eyewitness. Linda was out of control and screamed the place down. Apparently, this started when a security guard said something to her. Continue reading →

Universal credit and tax credit debt collection… wtf is going on here. My god

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Updates at the end of this post

Let’s finish the week as we started it – ie trying to make sense of the Universal Credit “system”:

I just finished speaking to the young Universal Credit claimant I wrote about earlier in the week. Readers of this site will be familiar with this woman’s story. This woman must carry out her Universal Credit compliance activities through Croydon jobcentre even though she lives in Colchester. She’s also been having £100+ deducted from her Universal Credit payments each month to repay a Universal Credit advance payment – the advance payments that David Gauke assures us will help people avoid (don’t laugh) the debts caused by delays in Universal Credit payments.

Now, the DWP has landed another debt on this young woman. This is a tax credit debt that she is sure she does not owe. The DWP has suddenly (this week) started deducting £25 a month from this woman’s Universal Credit payments. That’s another £25 gone each month from this woman’s money. She didn’t expect this deduction (at all) and she hasn’t budgeted for it. You see what I mean when I say that the state keeps broadsiding people with debts they can’t pay.

To cut a long story short:

This woman was among the many affected by the Concentrix tax credit scandal last year. The HMRC claimed she was living with someone (she wasn’t – like many caught up in the Concentrix debacle, she’d never even heard of the person she was accused of living with).

To start, the HMRC told her she owed a couple of thousand pounds in tax credit overpayments. Fighting that took months and endless phone calls which often required her to spend literally ages on hold. The amounts that the HMRC said this woman owed changed all over the place. Deductions were made from her benefit payments. This went on for an absolute age. I remember it well. The stress it all caused was extreme.

Earlier this year, this woman was told that she now owed about £1382 in child tax credit overpayments. She says nobody could tell her why. Then, the deductions for these so-called “overpayments” from her benefits stopped for a couple of months. She thought that meant the HMRC had decided she was right to say she owed nothing. Last month, no overpayment deductions were taken from her Universal Credit payment. There was relief all round. That really did seem to be the end of that.

Then last night, the woman looked at her Universal Credit account – and saw a message saying that £25 would be taken out for tax credit overpayments. She had absolutely no idea where that figure came from and/or why the message suddenly turned up. As I say, she wasn’t expecting it and certainly hadn’t budgeted for it. That money must now come from money set aside for other bills. This is why people fall into rent arrears, just by the way. People literally have no idea how much money they’ll get from month to month. Surprise deductions are made from their Universal Credit payments and people are not prepared. They have to try and find the shortfall at extremely short notice.

The woman says that trying to get to the bottom of things on the phone today has been an absolute nightmare and then some. The HMRC couldn’t “help” any more. Her (supposed) tax credit debt apparently now belongs to the DWP, because she is a Universal Credit claimant. Tax credits and debt apparently now come under the auspices of the DWP for some UC claimants (be afraid of that. These people literally couldn’t find their own arses with a searchlight. How they will manage the intensely complex tax credits and tax credit debt system – which was already a shambles – I do not know).

Or maybe I do. The woman says she called the Universal Credit helpline. They told her to talk to the DWP’s debt management department. Debt management said that she owed over £80 in tax credit overpayments. She asked how that could be. Other figures were bandied about. She said the numbers and figures didn’t add up. Debt management told her to call the tax credits helpline number. She called the tax credits helpline number. Tax credits told her to call Universal Credit..I just called the Universal Credit helpline to ask how all this should work. They told me to ring the DWP’s debt management line…

You get the picture.

More soon. I’m going for a drink.

Updates 8 October

  • The woman in this post says that after a lot of debate, DWP debt management agreed to send her a breakdown of the tax credit overpayment amount she supposedly owes. She must wait a fortnight for that statement to arrive. The DWP confirmed that it was managing tax credit debt when I rang on Friday.
  • Apparently, the HMRC should send people a letter called ‘Your tax credits overpayment’ (TC1131) if their tax credits debt is transferred to the DWP. Has anyone actually received on of these?
  • People have left comments on facebook to say that they’ve also had tax credit debt repayments deducted from their Universal Credit payments – between £40 and £60 per payment. Deductions stop and then start again.

The woman in this post says she takes screenshots of her Universal Credit account most days, because she doesn’t trust information in it not to change. Several months ago, she received a message in her Universal Credit account to say that £528 would be deducted from her Universal Credit account for overpayments. That notice frightened her. She couldn’t understand where the £528 amount had come from and she sure as hell couldn’t afford to lose £528 that month.

Here’s that notice:

This is a shambles.

So, Gauke – what about the many people who need Universal Credit, but can’t use computers or online systems at all?

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While we’re on the subject of Universal Credit:

Readers of this site will know I’ve regularly uploaded stories about people with learning and literacy difficulties, and other access issues, who are not able to use computers. It’s an issue noted by many. I’m working on another example of such a situation for a Universal Credit applicant at the moment.

The fact is that people in these situations will be utterly excluded from Universal Credit without support to apply and to manage their accounts.

Support is difficult to find – and can be almost impossible to find in some parts of the country (I know this, because I’ve tried). Planned jobcentre closures around the country will exclude people with access issues even further.

Perhaps Mr Gauke can expand on his plans there.

Universal Credit advance payments fix nothing. They’re just loans – and ANOTHER debt for people who have no money

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Getting very sick of Tory claims that Universal Credit advance payments solve the serious financial problems caused by the mandatory six weeks (it’s often longer) that people must wait for their first Universal Credit payment. This claim is a total fudge.

Let’s say this loud and clear: Universal Credit advance payments are LOANS. They must be repaid (you can read full details of the Universal Credit advance payment system on the CAB site). They’re not much-needed extras. They’re advances on people’s Universal Credit money and must be repaid out of people’s benefits.

That means that the DWP claws the money back when people’s Universal Credit claims are up and running. The DWP deducts advance payment loan money from people’s benefits at source. Those deductions mean that for months, people who were already in hardship (people who receive advance payments are in hardship by definition) get a smaller Universal Credit payment than they were expecting.

I’ve posted an example at the top of this article – an advance payment deduction notice from the Universal Credit journal of a Croydon/Colchester claimant I wrote about yesterday.

There’s another issue. The DWP makes mistakes with repayment totals – mistakes which cause people a great deal of stress and which they must try and sort out using Universal Credit’s unreliable online systems. For example: the woman who is paying back the advance payment in the notice above got a notice in her Universal Credit journal this year which said the DWP would deduct £528 that month. You can imagine how she felt when she saw that notice in her online account. She wasn’t even liable for payments listed in the notice:

When this sort of thing happens, people must spend ages on the phone to the DWP and online trying to sort the problem out – and trying to make sure, in this case, that the Universal Credit payment that month wasn’t £528 short. That deduction would have been a disaster. People who struggle to use online systems have no chance at all when these many mistakes happen. I’ve written in detail about problems JSA and Income Support claimants had and still have with DWP loan deductions. Some deductions put people in real hardship.

Let’s not forget either that often people who need advance Universal Credit payments already have other debts because of extra costs heaped on them by welfare reform – council tax debts and court costs, rent arrears and plenty more. The young woman in yesterday’s article had serious council tax and court debts, and tax credit repayment demands in the past two years. A deduction for a Universal Credit advance payment loan quickly becomes just another debt problem. Advance payments don’t solve problems caused by that six (and more) weeks that Universal Credit claimants must endure with no money.

All a Universal Credit advance payment does is push shortfall problems back for a short time – ie, until after Tory party conference is over and attention has moved from Universal Credit.

Does my head in, this. Just pay people their Universal Credit entitlement from the day they make their claim and be done with it. Any other so-called “fix” is garbage.

Universal Credit: You must look for work in Colchester by calling Croydon jobcentre. #wtf #IAmLostHere

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Another example of Universal Credit lunacy:

I’m speaking with a young Universal Credit claimant who lives in Colchester BUT must carry out benefit compliance activities through Croydon jobcentre. Instructions for her work-related activities come from Croydon jobcentre. She must participate in work-focused “telephone appointments” with Croydon jobcentre from her flat in Colchester.

This is ludicrous. This woman has to look for work in Colchester by calling Croydon jobcentre.

Wtf.

This arrangement has yielded no results as far as finding work goes.

Which is hardly surprising. Croydon jobcentre surely knows next to nothing about Colchester’s employment scene (I’ve been to meetings at Croydon jobcentre and have to say they seemed to struggle with things even in Croydon). Colchester is 72 miles, two hours and several overpriced train journeys from Croydon according to gmaps and the national rail planner. Finding work locally takes local knowledge. People need a local jobcentre. Ironically enough, they need local jobcentres more than ever as Universal Credit is rolled out. Universal Credit is supposed to be a world-beating online benefits-and-job-finding experience, but there are so many problems with it that people inevitably want and need face-to-face help. They don’t trust the DWP to give quick answers or help online.

This sort of convoluted “telephone appointments from elsewhere” situation must affect people all over the place. It apparently came about because Colchester doesn’t have full Universal Credit and won’t until April 2018. This woman made her initial Universal Credit claim at Croydon (a monumental headache in itself. She went weeks without money). Then, she moved to Colchester for cheaper housing. Her Universal Credit claim remained in Croydon, because Colchester can’t manage her claim. Continue reading →

Universal Credit rollout put back a year in North Kensington (Grenfell area)

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Looks like the full UC rollout in North Kensington goes back nearly a year. Just got this gov.uk email alert:

“10:02am, 27 September 2017. The date for roll-out of Universal Credit full service in postcode areas administered by North Kensington Jobcentre has changed from 4 October 2017 to 26 September 2018. These postcodes are: W8, W10 5, W10 6, W10 9 and W11.”

Rollout in North Kensington was halted after the Grenfell fire.

These rollouts are all over the place. Complete shambles and they know it. I have some upcoming posts with examples.

Is there too much focus on student loans, credit cards and other “middle class” debt?

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A few thoughts on Labour’s plans to cap credit card interest payments to ease card debt:

I feel that the debt troubles of a particular group of people are being sidelined in the recent flurry of mainstream news stories about debt (have written about this in detail in recent times)

We’re hearing a great deal in the mainstream about student loans and student debt, and about credit card and car payment debt  – debt that particularly concerns the middle and voting classes, as people on twitter have observed.

We’re hearing a lot less about the debts that are crushing people who are most marginalised:

Examples of those debts and costs:

– The council tax debt and outrageous court costs that are added to debts when people are summonsed to court for council tax non-payment

– The bailiff costs that rise by tens and hundreds of pounds each time a bailiff hammers on a door to demand council tax and other debt repayments

– The impossible landlord demands for rent shortfall money when housing benefit or Universal Credit don’t cover escalating rents

– The exorbitant court charges people must pay when eviction battles go to court (£355 for a woman on Income Support in this example).

– The DWP deductions from benefits for loans and advance payments that people must request to cover costs, Universal Credit start delays and all the rest.

– The sudden loss of income when Employment and Support Allowance recipients are found fit for work and told their ESA payments will stop.

Student loan debt and credit card debt are of course important topics. They’re not exclusive to the middle and/or voting classes. They just affect people who have a voice and use it. My point is that the crushing council tax demands, rent shortfall problems, benefit stops and delays, and court costs that keep the poorest people in debt are equally important. Payday loan regulation hardly addresses those problems.

If we’re going to talk about devastating debt which destroys lives, let’s include everyone in the discussion. Policy must be written for people who are the most marginalised, as well as people who are likely to vote. Such policy should be promoted and publicised as enthusiastically as any call for a card interest cap.

Throwing marginalised people a lifeline is not “being soft on welfare,” you know. It’s being humane – and fiscally responsible, I would have thought.

How many damn times does the DWP need to assess unchanged disability?

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Working with a man in his 50s who has just received a letter which calls him to yet another face to face Employment and Support Allowance assessment.

This has to be at least the fourth and probably fifth ESA assessment he’s been called to in three or four years. I attended two of the things with him myself. There have been so many letters from the DWP on this and PIP that we have actually lost count.

This man’s health and disability has not changed over the last few years. If anything, his health has deteriorated because of these constant assessments and the associated stress about the amount of money he will have from one week to the next. Services in his part of the country – particularly mental health services – have about completely disappeared. Even the organisation which used to help him fill in the DWP’s endless application forms is no more. His local MP is some useless Tory.

This assessment this man must attend is a complete waste of time. The DWP is perfectly aware of his health and his issues – or it should be after assessing him so often. Presume Maximus is the only outfit doing well out of this. Meanwhile, this bloke is being harassed out of sight by the DWP. He has also been put through an awful grind to get PIP. That took about a year.

This so called system is out of control. Even rightwing anti tax types ought to be waking up to this dreadful waste of time and money. This government and ridiculous Tory party is criminal. They refuse to take responsibility for this disgrace. They allow this non stop harassment of people most in need. They continue to pay the likes of Maximus god knows what to carry out these pointless assessments – they already know what an assessment will show. Is anyone in government even in charge of day-to-day operations anymore?