“I felt like I was being totally bullied in the playground by this big bitch… it’s like the more white and English you are, the more fucking shit you are. I’m not being funny, but it’s true.”
So. That’s a quote. That’s the sort of thing people say when I talk with them at jobcentres. These places are not pleasant, you know.
I give you the transcript below as an example of one sort of discussion that I have a lot of – discussions with people who are over 50, out of work and signing on at jobcentres where they must participate in jobsearch activities. In the past couple of years, I’ve met a lot of people who are over 50 and sometimes getting on for 60 at jobcentres. Some are on Jobseekers’ Allowance and some are on Employment And Support Allowance, and some go backwards and forwards between the two as they’re found fit for work and then found not-so-fit-for-work when advisers see where things are really at. I’m not sure exactly what point I’m trying to make by uploading these stories. I think it is probably that signing on when you’re older is grim and that I hope I never have to do it.
This is a transcript from a discussion that I had a few months ago outside Kilburn jobcentre with a guy called Terry, who was 54. He said that he’d been sanctioned by a jobcentre adviser a few days earlier and that he had no money in his bank account. He’d come to the jobcentre to ask for a hardship loan. He was furious about the sanction. No surprises there. People who’ve been sanctioned generally are furious. Being sanctioned does not usually bring out anyone’s best (even though government believes that sanctions teach people very important life lessons and make them better claimants. Or something). People must go through the motions of looking for work. They must fill in jobsearch booklets and talk about answering job ads. Everyone is perfectly aware that these so-called jobsearch activities are pointless. You’re generally no closer to work at the end of them than you were at the beginning, particularly when you’re over 50. To be sanctioned for the poor performance of a task that you know was meaningless in the first place doesn’t teach you much, except that you’re stuck in a farce. And to hate everyone, I guess.
Anyway. I’ve had conversations like the one below as a matter of course at jobcentres over the past couple of years. The main lesson that I take away from these stories is Don’t Age. You may not think your best is behind you when you get past 50, but everyone else sure will. The system will certainly rub your nose in your failures as it perceives them. Nobody reacts well.
What a comforting thought.
Terry, 54:
“I’ve just been sanctioned. I will tell you why. I have to describe this sort of stuff (he showed me the jobsearch notebook in which he had to write details of his jobsearch activities) with my supporting jobcentre like samples. Anyway, that’s what I’ve done. Anyway, she [the jobcentre adviser] signed it. She was just about to send it and she said – “Oh, you’re still hoping to teach guitar from home, still, right,” because I’m saying this that and the other and I’m hoping to start teaching. She said – “you’re just repeating yourself. You’re cutting and pasting.”
I said – “what?”
She said “I’m taking it to my manager,” and so that’s it. She hasn’t signed me on and she’s said “I’ll leave it to my manager to sign anyway” and Monday came and my money wasn’t there, so obviously I’ve come down here. I phoned Belfast as well [the Belfast benefits centre] and they said I’ve been suspended. So I’ve come down here and I’ve got a hardship form for jobseekers, so I filled that in and given them my bank statements, but basically, this is unbelievable. I felt like I was being totally bullied in the playground by this big bitch. Yeah, it’s like the more white and English you are, the more fucking shit you are. I’m not being funny, but it’s true.
I just want to get out of here now. I’ve got to find something to eat. Yeah, I suffer from chronic eczema, right. I’ve got an appointment this Thursday. They are going to really hear about the way they have treated me.
I play guitar and I’ve been playing for 20 years. I could really start teaching now, but my flat has to be nice. It has to be presentable for people to take me seriously, so when I start teaching, it’s going to be fantastic. I start in the 80s, doing that sort of thing. Music shop on video…
No warning [for this sanction]. Just this one person who was signing me on last Wednesday, who read my thing and said “Ok, you could write down a few more jobs with email addresses,” and I do that sort of thing, so she said “I’m going to initial it this time, but next time, put a bit more information in,” and then she just went “is this about this teaching from home thing,” and I had flu last Wednesday and I just did not have the energy to say, “Well, I’m waiting for this poxy boiler to be done and the place has to be sorted out and decorated and it’s all being replaced,” and I just didn’t have the energy to say….
Well, they’re sending off the hardship loan now. I’ve got to go back Thursday to get some food vouchers. I’m going to the hospital and they are all going to hear about this. I phoned Belfast in the morning and I put a complaint about this.
I felt totally intimated and bullied to an extent where I was put aside and made to write out a list of jobs, you know, from the top of my head. She knows I had the flu. I sit down and she says “how are you” and I say “well, I’m pretty flu-d up, I’m not that great,” and she says “Ok,” and I wasn’t. The next thing, I’m there under pressure having to write out all these jobs looking at my phone and think what have I applied for.
There were like 14 with the other form [Terry had to show evidence that he’d searched for 14 jobs a fortnight]. I haven’t got that form, because I was on ESA a few months ago. [I had] to come off ESA onto Jobseekers’ Allowance. I have to just fill this form in and [give] a brief description [of each jobsearch activity] and say just what you’ve been doing, na na na and you’re there…
ESA – obviously, that went on for three months. My doctor said “try to go back to work” and I want to go back to work. Most mornings, I’m really suffering… I’m always bad. It’s bad enough. That’s why I’m under the [specialist]. I have to have this UV treatment. It’s really done wonders for me up until now. It’s just started to flare back again. It takes ages to get a [specialist] appointment. I did that just before the summer, towards the wintertime, so yeah – it’s perfect timing me getting sanctioned.
It’s more than…it was just last Wednesday. My money was meant to go in on Monday, so since last Wednesday, until yesterday, I’m just like – I’m not going to get any money. I was really getting anxious. I was just like – what are they doing to people?
They offered me food vouchers today, but it was a bit late, because I had to go all the way home and get my cashpoint card and get my bank statement, because she said “have you got your cashpoint card with you?” and I said “No, why would I have my cashpoint card with me? I haven’t got any money in the bank,” so I had to go all the way back home and get my bank statement. That goes off with the hardship form. Now I just got to wait for a decision…”
Good post, and it’s good to get the perspective of older workers in. I’m 59 this year, unemployed and claiming JSA, and as you point out in your article, the whole process of listing jobs etc is a complete farce – and my Jobcentre advisors know this.
I’ve been very fortunate with my advisors, and to be fair, they’ve never given me any hassles, tried to make me jump through hoops, (there are potentially reasons for this, but I can’t give details here for fear of divulging who I am, but if the blog owner wants verification, they are free to contact me) not even insisted that I should sign up for UJM or any of that kind of stuff – oh, and I still have a paper signing, as when my advisor tried to tell me that it was ‘compulsory’ I was able to point out the FoI that said that it wasn’t. In fairness, my advisor had been told by his manager that it was compulsory; the manager changed their tune a bit when shown the FoI, and said that it was ‘recommended’.
I still hope to get work, as does Terry, but if the DWP thinks that they are improving anyone’s chances at gaining employment, no matter what their age, using the daft and fundamentally unfair system that various governments have put in place they are living in cloud-cuckoo land.
There is rightfully a lot of emphasis on younger workers, who are discriminated against on grounds of age, (lack of experience, lack of training etc, etc) but I don’t think there is enough emphasis on the plight of older workers, who are also affected by ageist attitudes, (perception that they are ‘past it’ or alternatively, know too much to be easily pushed about/could pass on ‘bad’ behaviours to younger staff *grins*). Both groups have a huge amount in common, and could learn so much from each other, and in any case are just too much of a human asset to waste – both groups are in need of investment in terms of skills training/retraining.
On a slightly off topic, but there again topical note, I was thinking about the big People’s Assembly rally in London yesterday. It’s all very well the leaders of the Labour Party and the likes of Len McCluskey to call for ending of austerity measures and getting rid of the welfare cuts, but how do we know that it isn’t just the same old rhetoric, (well, maybe I’m cynical, but I DO think it’s the same old rhetoric, and as far as I’m concerned, the only group there that had any idea at all was the No Jobs Bloc) that will be forgotten by the likes of McCluskey and Abbot as soon as Labour are back in Downing Street again? How about us, the people who have been subjected to the welfare reforms start setting an agenda of our own that leads the way? There are enough of us, we are only too familiar with what is ‘broken’, and I’m sure we have some very imaginative ideas for how to fix the system so that it starts to reflect the real needs of our society and the people in it rather than the interests of the rich and powerful. This is where groups like No Jobs could have huge influence, and their starting point of asking the simple question of ‘why work?’ is crucial. Only when we are sure as to our reasons why we should work will it all start to make sense to us. I believe in work, when it serves the needs of society and the individuals who go to make up that society, but I also think that basic living standards should be respected as a right, in the form of a universal unconditional basic income that is paid regardless of whether someone works or not.
Yes this idea of the basic income is one that grows on me by the day. Opponents of basic income blather on about not being able to afford it – but basic income would surely be at least as affordable and endlessly more productive than the sort of scenario described above.
I don’t think it’s to do with cost. If anything, I think it would be cheaper than the current system. The reason they oppose it is because they can’t profit from it. It’s that simple.
Am still recovering from Neil Faulkner’s claim* that ALL money is created by private banks who lend it to governments, other banks, businesses or consumers as loans – which they expect to get paid with an interest. Hence why we are chronically in debt & told to “cut the deficit”.
But since socially housed people on Basic Incomes don’t need loans – no profit can be gained from them. It wrecks capitalism. 😉
And it still wrecks capitalism even when people take on low paid, part time work. Because the system of Basic Income relies on gradual taxation – the more you earn, the more tax you pay.
And we all know how enthusiastic the rich are about paying taxes. 😉
* page 38, Boom, Bubble & Bust by Neil Faulkner: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-PoJX4feqIuWjk3QTVZNHhuX1k/view?pref=2&pli=1
More about Neil Faulkner & Corbynomics: http://www.redpepper.org.uk/corbynomics-can-work/
They’re also pretty keen on keeping a workforce desperate. I’ve always been of the view that the whole sanctions system is about terrifying everyone into taking and keeping whatever work they can get at whatever pay working for whatever wankers, because the alternative is too appalling to contemplate. It’s the workhouse threat all over again. Better to work for nearly fuck all in shit circumstances than go through all of this.
It’s interesting, too. The main reason the basic income idea has a place in my head is that I have this idea that that’s one way to get some money to some people without this fucked up conditionality. Sad, really. These conditionality systems are seriously fucked up and out of control – maniacal systems for the hell of it.
Absolutely agree. Not only are these Workhouse systems maniacal & out of control – they are abusive.
There is something of contempt to treat people this way.
50p a day & a horse shit sandwich,what more can anyone ask.
Interesting account and one which I some sympathy with. As a 62 female, made redundant last year, I was exposed to the farce that is known as the Job Centre. The number of women in my age group who should claim JSA is likely to be considerably higher than their presence (or lack of) might indicate. Thousands of women have been hit by two changes in their state pension qualifying age with little or no notice at all from DWP leaving them without any form of income whatsoever. The Waspi (women against state pension inequality) campaign has an online petition with almost 200,000 signatures. The government are totally deaf to their plight – no doubt hoping that a large number of these women will die before ever reaching pension age. It’s for this reason the official figures for unemployed women in their late 50’s and early 60’s is any but accurate.
I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis in my knees and ankles, which led to unexpected falls. When the Co-operative office I worked for closed down to “rationalise” its costs, I found it difficult to find work – I was relatively newly married (6 months, but still paying my full NI stamp), but I now had three handicapped – over qualified, a woman of 52 (I’m 62 this year) and disabled. I found a maternity cover vacancy at the local hospital, but once that finished, there was nothing. I was, by this time 54. So I took temporary secretarial work and when that stopped, tried (unsuccessfully) – to start a home secretarial business, with no assistance from anywhere – the JC didn’t want to know and could offer no assistance. In the meantime, I went to evening classes to train to be a Teaching Assistant. I’d always wanted to teach, so my husband encouraged me. I found a school willing to take me as a volunteer TA to help children with their reading. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but when the school changed Headteachers, I was told I was no longer needed. So I went to another local school, but had to leave when my husband was taken very poorly (he’s disabled). So I decided to take my company pension “early – ill health”. My husband had taken his company pension early 10 years earlier. We planned for my retirement at 62 and put money into ISAs accordingly. Now I won’t retire until I’m nearly 66! To be exact – 5th January 2020. I was born in June 1954!!! I have never received notification from DWP of the change to 2020. I happened to send for a State Pension Forecast – so it came as a bit of a shock to find it had changed again. What to do? Well, the long and short of it is – we have to live on what meagre savings we have, but they are going down fast. This government, and this disgusting abuse of the sick, disabled and poorly paid needs sorting and stopping. New ideas need to be brought in. A new Disabilities Minister who is actually disabled would be a start. I nominate Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson for the job. I’m sure, having heard her speak in the Lords, that she would make mincemeat of this current shower of multi-millianaire scroungers!!!
Sorry for the long post. Rant over.
Age discrimination is supposed to be a thing of the past – but there is no better example than the plight of the unemployed in their 50s and 60s. Too young to retire, yet past being of any real interest to employers.
Application forms which require dates for schooling and qualifications, adverts looking for people to ‘start a career in…’. Or to enter a ‘ busy hands-on environment, where meeting and exceeding challenges are an everyday occurrence.’
They don’t really expect to consider a 60 year old. In reality, how many managers in their 30s and 40s are going to want to employ someone as their assistant who is nearly the same age as their parents ?
Despite the fact that society can ill-afford to write off these people, still often active and able to work, the government has just deliberately ignored the situation.
Frank Field thinks it’s the 50s ^ 60 own fault they’re unemployed, because they won’t work for low pay. Completely out of touch as usual.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/18/frank-field-proposes-national-wage-top-up-for-lower-paid-over-50s
There is something deeply calculating about proposing new bail outs under guise of helping workers. Hang on, did I say workers? I mean wealth creators – the 80% of the population who run services & create actual goods*.
It reveals an attitude where it’s acceptable to mistreat us by forcing us to accept inadequate wages & precarious working conditions. That, instead of risk upsetting that tiny 1% so accustomed to take our wealth & blow it on the stock exchange.
So no, he is anything but out of touch. He is out of compassion for 80% of humanity.
* examples are: healthcare, education, IT, local government, kitchen staff, builders, farmers, factory workers, cashiers, artists, musicians, parents, carers & many, many more.
I heard a lot yesterday about the enormous ‘stamina’ of a certain high profile 90 year old.
Some experiences are more sapping of one’s stamina than others.
Dude Swheatie of Kwug
ain’t that the truth
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It can be argued that there are strong parallels between
a) the academisation of schools and force-feeding of Standardised Assessment Tests (SATS) to school children and
b) the one-sidedness of ‘conditionality’ imposed on benefit claimants at the Jcp and in the privatised ‘welfare to work’ industry.
Both seek to produce a robotic, compliant workforce whatever the human cost. See ‘Parent Power’ campaign to withdraw children from school on May 3rd for a day of ‘fun learning’ gathers support. Note also what poet and educationist Michael Rosen says about academies’ presumed right to exclude ‘poor quality students’ [sic] — Michael Rosen speaking at Parents Defending Education — and a parent’s account: ‘Almost overnight our school became a brutal exam factory’ – Rescue Our Schools speaker.
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This policy of sanctions and reduction in benefits targets one section of citizens and clearly breaches International law on Crimes against humanity. A current investigation has been started against UK Government’s policy.
Everyone one of us have paid our taxes for these benefits now when we are out of work or ill or just old they have changed the rules. This change started under Gordon Brown! Under commercial law this would be a breach of contract. Pension changes would also fall into this category.
This brings me on to the EU and the June election to vote IN or OUT. If you stay in a dictatorial system you as citizen will lose what little say you have. Look at the history of Russia, any voice against the ruling elite were arrested and sent to Siberia where torture, starvation and death were inflicted.
If you want any degree of say and a little Democracy ‘OUT’ is the only option. The demand change of Government systems to increase citizen’s needs. AFTER ALL FOLKS THEY ARE THE HIRED HELP AND YOU ARE THEIR PAYMASTER.
“like the more white and English you are, the more fucking shit you are. I’m not being funny, but it’s true.”
No it’s not true. In fact, it is total bullshit. Non-white people face discrimination in housing, employment, education, social security, the health service, in fact, we are discriminated against in every way possible.
What he really means is: “I’m white and it’s wrong that I am being treated like a ni**er in my own country.”
What does the graph show?
Black people had the highest sanction rate of any ethnic group.
Source: http://www.londonspovertyprofile.org.uk/indicators/topics/receiving-non-work-benefits/jsa-sanction-rate-by-ethnicity-and-age/
It is jjust awful! I am an unemployed 60 year old female and have been affected by the now higher person age. I am sineglected and jobless. I sign on fortnightly on a Monday on Sunday I am filled with dtead and on the verge of tears. I never know if l have done enough and will I bloody well get sanctioned this is unbelievably cruel! I have been told to join a 50plus group and do work experienice. What a ridiculous thing! I phoned up the corse tutor and said that I have tonly attend under threat of my 70 pounds being axed. I did not like the sound of the smug batch at all. I have again sign on and expect that I shall be punished and sanctioned for non-attendance. I cannot stand it all and just want my pension!
I can relate to all that has been said here, I am almost 63 and still have to put up with this shit to receive my measly £70.00, people of this age should not have to jump through hoops for what it is subsistence. The feeling before having to go through the indignity that is signing on is awful, and the bullshit of pretending that someone actually wants t to employ people of my age?