The story below is pretty extraordinary. It’s a classic example of the DWP’s extreme dysfunction and bureaucratic tangling. It also demonstrates how very few rights of appeal disabled people really have when they apply for benefits:
I’ve posted below a letter which was received last week by Sean (named changed), a man in his 50s who has an Asperger’s diagnosis and serious depression and anxiety. (I’ve been writing about Sean’s struggle to apply for Personal Independence Payment, the benefit that is meant to replace Disability Living Allowance).
About a month ago, Sean found out that his application for PIP had been turned down. Then, bizarrely, just a few days after he received that rejection letter, Sean got a letter from the DWP which said that his Mandatory Reconsideration of his PIP rejection decision had already been carried out and the decision to reject his PIP appeal upheld. Mandatory Reconsideration is the review that PIP applicants must ask for if they want to challenge a DWP decision about their PIP application. When people request a Mandatory Reconsideration, they can ask the DWP to review the reasons why they were turned down. The problem for Sean was that the DWP carried out a Mandatory Reconsideration of its decision to deny him PIP without telling or involving him. Sean didn’t request the Mandatory Reconsideration that the DWP did and he never had the chance to contribute to it. More than that – the letter Sean received about this random Mandatory Reconsideration showed that the DWP carried it out BEFORE it made a decision about Sean’s original PIP application. Sean didn’t request that Mandatory Reconsideration, because he didn’t even know his PIP application had been rejected when it was done. He was very upset about that, with good reason.
So – Sean wrote to the DWP to complain about this Mandatory Reconsideration going on without him. He asked the DWP to run his review again – and to this time give him a chance to contribute to it. He got this letter in return – a letter which says Sean’s Mandatory Reconsideration has already been done as far as the DWP is concerned and so that is the end of that:
The upshot is that Sean has been denied his right to tell the DWP why he believes he should get PIP. He also ended up with only two days to make an appeal against the PIP rejection to tribunal, because the DWP said he had to meet the appeal deadlines set out in the original random Mandatory Reconsideration letter.
It can be hard to keep up with all of this, you know. Kafkaesque really doesn’t begin to describe it. Makes you wonder how many sick or disabled people are denied benefits and their right to appeal if a decision goes against them. Let’s not forget either that Sean’s PIP application was turned down because he got extremely upset at his face-to-face assessment. His Asperger’s and anxiety mean that he finds coping with face-to-face assessments and meetings very difficult. No adjustments were made for that, though. The DWP’s decision to deny him PIP because of his Asperger’s and his struggle to cope in stressful situations such as benefit assessments with unsympathetic strangers was rotten in itself.
That situation is being followed up, believe me.
#RightsNotGames
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If the report, when it turns up with the ‘decision maker’ s findings turn out to be based on contadictory, assumptive, factually inaccurate observations which are full of error, and incomplete data I can help you mount a robust challenge to that, backed up with the full force of the law.
Feel free to contact me if you’d like my help. 🙂
I wish I had known you when they did my ESA as they did the same thing to me, apart from the fact they placed me in the WRAG group when as far as my doctor and specialist epilepsy nurse are concerned I should of been in support group.
Mandatory Reconsiderations are generally a waste of time anyway as they’re done by the DWP as well and they rarely change their minds. It’s best to take it a step further to Appeal Tribunal where the decision makers are independant and much more likely to be fair. I’m basing this on ESA as I have no experience of PIP but I think they work the same way.
I agree with you. I have an experience with both ESA and PIP. I get help from a professional person who works for a local disabled charity. She is a blessing! She helps me with forms, and then she advisees me not to worry about the refusal of my application during the Athos or the Mandatory Reconsiderations stage. She believes I will get a fair chance to be correctly and justly assessed ONLY at the Tribunal stage. But this seams never ends… I have been given PIP in November 2015 until september in 2017 – but already was a victim of Performance Measurement visit in May 2016 and despite being assured there will be no change – that visit apparently triggered “new claim” and another assessment just a week ago with Athos in October 2016. So much for the time until 2017… I don’t even have enough energy to visit some of my doctors so often! …
How do I find out updates to this guy’s case?
The exact thing happened to me and I have been diagnosed with Aspergers. I was awarded it at appeal so don’t get too disheartened
A human rights lawsuit should be filed against the DWP in conjunction with a UN CRPD “grave and systematic” violations finding.
That is ridiculous there are people walking about out there who have nothing wrong with them yet they pass their pip medical with flying colours. I myself am on pip it was a struggle to get it and a struggle to get to the medical due to all my ailments. They should at least have given the man a chance to put his side across or were the staff at Dwp fighting over who was going to get the bonus in their wage packet for dropping him from pip.
Kate
Good Luck with the Appeal – I would prepare a nice long letter, addressed to the following – Equality Commission with regards to the Year Long Investigation into DWP and Benefits & Sanctions launched in April, All the The House of Commons Committiee Members, this Persons MP, Contact the Civil Advice Line for legal advice [the use of a rule which negates your rights in a way that is not Ordinary IS illegal so is discrminatry in nature – the MR before the decision is a glaring example], the deliberate maladministration due to the handling of this particular case. The collusion of the officers at all levels in allowing this case to proceed as it has – there are checks in place to make sure things like this do not happen – anyone say they did check shows they did not do their job (that would be the managers). Oh, and copy in the Prime Minsters Office, as she just last week announced she was ‘concerned’ at the treatment of the less well off by Gov departments of late. Sit back, get the popcorn and watch the headless chicken show.
By going to the Committee/MP you are invoking the 24hr rule/5 day rule. Convention is that answers must be given in a set, tight deadline period [stops MPs getting up in parliment asking awkward questions]
Good Luck
Sorry, the committee is the one dealing with DWP
This is awful, but not surprising. I think the DWP can be challenged on this as the letter requesting Mandatory Reconsideration is your opportunity to disagree with the original report. If the claimant hasn’t seen this report or had 28 days to respond after initial decision it doesn’t follow their own rules.
I’m in the process of appealing PIP and waiting for a tribunal date.
Ironically the main reason they stopped mine was because ‘you were able to attend the assessment’ – so they took away the Motability car which I used to get there and now I’m housebound. So if you cope with the assessment at Atos you are penalised and if you can’t cope, as in Sean’s case, they still penalise you.
I hope Sean has an advocate to help and wins on appeal. The tribunal is done by professionals so there’s more hope. I’m being supported by the CAB and couldn’t have got this far without them.
This shows exactly how far we have have come in the dismantling of the welfare system. Now it is seen as quite normal for disabled people to face this sort of treatment on a regular basis. And what do we hear about any of this from Labour ?
Nothing as usual, only their self-regarding leadership campaign.
absolutely disgraceful. I am fighting my case at the moment .. . complete and utter farce and has set any kind of recovery back years …. .
Thanks for comments & offers of support all. This case is being pursued so advice is being sought.
I can’t stress the difficulties of these situations enough. The local advice centre in this guy’s area has just announced it is closing its doors and the CAB is v difficult to access because it is oversubscribed and to me, this is one of the major problems with all of this (apart from the DWP being completely out of control that is) – the lack of support because so much support has been lost. Quite a few people say to me that they’ve given up on a claim because they just can’t take any more of the so-called application process. I suppose that’s the whole idea as far as government is concerned.
I am dealing with similar issues in respect of people who have been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome being dealt with in a very discriminatory way, with assessors telling carers that they cannot speak, yet the claimant often cannot process what is being said fast enough and is anxious at having to go somewhere new and be interrogated by a stranger. I am writing about several similar cases for the Parliamentary review and am also in touch with the local MP about an increasing dossier of cases, where complete ignorance on the part of assessors and decision-makers has led to extremely perverse decisions. The DWP is also not following its guidelines about vulnerable people, where someone with autism does not understand the form and turns up alone , for example. They often lack insight into the level of care they need and the assessors also do not know what they do not know and the result is ridiculous. They have to be reminded that it is lifelong too. Someone who had been sectioned and was still the subject of a court order, in residential 24 hour care, was given no points! Physiotherapists and paramedics or general nurses usually know very little indeed about autism, yet still the DWP prefers their evidence to that of clinical psychologists and social workers who specialise in working in this field.
I AM THE SAME AND HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WTH ASC AUTISM, OH YES, I HAVE BEEN TURNED DOWN BY PIPS FOR PIPS MONEY AND I AM APPEALING THIS TO APPEAL AND THIS IS AFTER I HAVE GIVEN PROFESSIONAL PROOF FROM AN NHS DIAGNOSIS DOCTOR IN AUTISM.
I know of many who have had their Pip examinations done this year on the grounds of alcohol/drug abuse / depression who have been awarded it.
Some have been awarded care allowance also.
Ask any homeless charities how many of the people they support with
Addictions do get pip and all that goes with it. You can’t work if your inebriated or drugged!!!!!!!!! It’s an unfair system.
Alison why have you put depression there? It’s bad enough the government are doing all they can to get rid of mental health services and deny sufferers the help and support they need, without us turning on each other.
As for alcohol and drug issues…it’s not straightforward. Those issues almost always mask something else deeper and in addition cause all kind of physical illnesses too. Yes people need to take responsibility for themselves too but that’s the case with the majority of people with long term conditions. Luckily we live in a society that doesn’t leave people with those issues to die in the gutter – yet.
Well said Lisa. I was pretty offended by Alison’s remarks too. No one can possibly know anyone’s reasons for whatever state they find themselves in and should never judge without knowing the full story. There are always reasons for drug/alcohol dependency and depression. It’s not a pleasant way to live and made even worse by statements like that.
There is specific case law which regards addiction as a disease. They have to show it is a true addiction however, and not just substance misuse.
Many people addicted to drugs have a dual diagnosis for mental health conditions: so it often is not as simple as it may seem on the surface.
Under the circumstances, it would be reasonable to put in a late appeal: either a) within 28 days from when he first became aware his claim was turned down, or b) with extra time as a reasonable adjustment under the equality act (2010).
Furthermore, given that he has had less time (compared to other appellants) to acquire further medical evidence or seek advice from welfare rights/CAB, it would likely be considered reasonable to request his tribunal be listed later than the current appeals list, for the purposes of obtaining further evidence. This would need to be put in writing asap. If the tribunal has already been listed, and more time is needed, he would need to seek an adjournment. If it hasn’t been listed as yet, simply writing to the administrative support office to request a delayed listing should be sufficient.
All that said, many tribunals feel their best evidence comes directly from the appellant. However, a doctor or other health professional who knows him well, and who can comment/give recommendations about the areas covered in the descriptors, is extremely helpful, and can potentially aid the tribunal to come to a fair conclusion according to the legal framework.
Without knowing which region he is in, getting in touch with welfare rights is likely his best bet, as they seem to be consistently okay and most likely to be able to accompany his to tribunal (cab often don’t have the funds/staff to accompany any more (depending upon region)).
I have several disabilities and the assessor wasn’t even qualified to assess me. But despite falsifying the evidence the tribunal upheld the decision and refused me anything. and i can’t fight back as I have no one to represent me. I can’t see myself ever having it. My Brother also had this problem and unfortunatly i think that is why he committed suicide
Although I truly believe there’s an agenda to disseminate the welfare state, I think some people have aided the Tories in this aim.
I have seen some fakers in my time: for example, I used to live next door to a real life “Andy Pipkin” [Little Britain character in the wheelchair], he ran his own unofficial car-repair ‘garage’ from his drive [he repaired cars from morning till night, we even had a bet on one xmas whether he’d be under a car xmas day].
One particular day, I had to take my young-son to an out patient appointment and I saw my neighbour with a nurse on one arm and his wife on the other feigning a terrible limp. He stopped dead when he saw me and the nurse [thinking he was having difficulty] said: “take your time Mr W, take your time” I roared with laughter, because that particular morning he’d been under a car; walking perfectly and carrying a heavy [industrial] trolly jack.
Contrary-wise I have been the diametrical opposite: my best-friend’s husband was dying of cancer and he couldn’t get a penny DLA and my husband’s friend couldn’t get DLA until he was nearly dead of renal failure.
You make a valid point Tina, but IMHO this exposes wider societal problems. I don’t seek to refute the fact that there are scroungers (frauds) out there. Figures are hard to establish, with estimates at around 5% of all claimants, to as low as below 2%. Who do you believe? More to the point; Who do you want to believe? I hope you’d agree that the ‘Life on Benefits’ programs aren’t exactly going to give a great impression on the whole. Not to insult the people, but it’s all in the edit (Cue the five-second close-up of someone’s cigarette, beer bottle or tattoo…). I’ve heard/read the two extremes you quote many times in conversations on this subject. What about everyone else? Isn’t this a little black and white? An easy way to dispense with a difficult subject? I mean, if you’re REALLY ill you must be nearly dead or bed-ridden, right? Can’t be seen outside too often, having a drink, laughing, enjoying a hobby and definitely not carrying shopping bags from a car to the house! Not that you are thinking this personally, Tina, but this attitude is definitely ‘out there’. How many times can anyone reading this (?) remember when they heard “So-and-so is supposed to have [insert condition], but I saw him/her doing [insert activity allegedly prohibited to ill people]”. There are a lot of people struggling with serious health conditions, many of which are likely to worsen or even be life-threatening if sensible lifestyle changes aren’t made. I’m one of those people. The fact that ‘some people’ are frauds does not excuse the labelling of all those on benefits. I try not to let these things upset me or my condition define me, but some things I MUST accept.
Often, out of necessity, we care the most for our families & friends. Many involve themselves in charitable work. Why this kind of “extended disconnect”? I’ve often found that an individuals’ positive (or read ‘balanced’) attitudes on this matter are watered-down or ,worse, altogether silent when in company….
Sorry for rambling.
Hear hear….Well said that man! I particularly like the part about:
“So-and-so is supposed to have [insert condition], but I saw him/her doing [insert activity allegedly prohibited to ill people]”
The worst thing about having a disability is other people’s attitudes towards it. People like that should do us all a favour and stop commenting on stuff they don’t understand!
Cheers
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i rung up pip appeal all they told me they sending letters to dwp because i send lots off evident to them an pip did not get back to them with in 28 days
very odd 2 years back my letter for failing pip was only a few days maybe a week after medical and full of lies unfortunately my advocate came off fb friends admitted he was a u kip supporter so i didnt bother appealing as had no support advocate for that stage
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