While Brexit and Trump hoover resources and headlines, the state and so-called social landlords continue to get away with screwing people into the ground:
Last week, I spent several hours at the South Chadderton foodbank in Oldham speaking with people who’d come in for groceries.
We talked about the reasons why people needed to use the foodbank.
One explanation in particular came up, as it does a lot: Debt repayment plans are leaving people with no money.
People on benefits and low incomes are repaying arrears or loans money to councils, housing associations, the DWP, bailiffs and god knows who else – but they can’t afford it. The loss of the fivers and tenners that authorities deduct in repayments make a tolerable life impossible. People certainly don’t have the hundreds, or sometimes thousands, of pounds that are really needed to shift these debts. Simple equation, when you look at it. Debts grow and penalties grow, but income does not.
Still, we have these repayment plans.
At South Chadderton, I talked for a long while with a young guy called Neil (name changed. There’s a transcript from the interview we recorded at the end of this post).
Neil needed a food parcel, because Oldham’s First Choice Homes housing association and the DWP were taking cuts from Neil’s benefit for rent arrears and loan repayments. Other authorities were queuing up for a share: Neil had been summonsed to court for council tax arrears. Neil couldn’t afford the repayments, but he had to pay all the same. You’ll see from the letter above that First Choice Homes is taking £30 a fortnight for rent arrears (out of a benefit total of about £130).
Neil said that talking to the housing association was hopeless (I offered to make a call).
“They say the lowest they can go is £30…they’re on the phone, going on with themselves.. I said, “hang on a minute.” They said, “can you make a payment now?” I said, “I’ve got nothing to give you.” (I’ve had plenty of similar conversations where I’ve tried, fruitlessly, to convince organisations to go easy because people can’t meet their debts).
It should come as no surprise that Neil was recently done for theft. He did a stretch last year for theft by finding – “[it was] a load of slates in the alley. They’d been there for two year.” This sort of story is very common indeed. I’ve met a number of guys in the area now who’ve been in and out of jail in recent times. (Two out of the three people I spoke to at the foodbank last week had done time).
The problem is life when people get out. Neil lost his housing benefit while he was in prison. He ended up with rent arrears. That total has gone up again, because he didn’t make repayments over Christmas and New Year. Neil decided to keep hold of his benefit money instead. Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb, etc. I’d take the same view myself. Neil couldn’t stand another call with the council or the housing association on the topic. I find this all the time these days as well. Every contact with the bureaucracy is a bitter fight. People don’t even want to talk to an officer to ask if calculation mistakes have been made, or to question sums they don’t understand, or if letters are correct, or if there are other options for help.
So. Councils, HAs and the DWP are sucking whatever blood they can. I also think authorities like to imagine that strict repayment plans represent a kind of bureaucratic toughlove: ie if you force the wayward lower orders to pay back arrears, you’ll teach them financial responsibility (I trust the same view is taken of wayward tax dodging corporates, etc).
Personally, I’d argue that the main thing that people without money need is money. At the very least, they need decent chances to generate enough of it. Heaping unpayable debts on people puts people in a position where they inevitably think Fuck It. They know perfectly well that they’re trapped in debt – probably forever, unless they win the lottery, or get a high-paying job (and that’s unlikely here). In the meantime, people hoard and use whatever they have. They ignore letters and calls from bureaucrats, as anyone sensible would. Why bother to talk when there’s nothing new to say?
Notions of Deserving or Undeserving Poor don’t come into it. I don’t care if you insist a debt is that person’s fault, or that ex-cons/people on benefits/people with debts deserve everything they get. The fact is that arrears costs and penalties ratchet debts up, and people don’t and won’t have enough money to make these problems go away (I suspect that’s the state’s intention. The state and housing associations, etc, don’t support these people. They own these people. That’s not a good place to be). A fiver here and a tenner here is not going to cut it.
These days, I think you belong in one of two groups: you’re either someone who always has enough spare money throw at life’s financial challenges, or you’re not. It’s not a question of good/bad, or deserving/undeserving. It’s a question of your chances of making enough money to cover your arse in all scenarios.
Anyway. I rang First Choice Homes’ Income Collection Team for a general idea of their processes and the minimum amount they accept in repayment, etc. They wouldn’t discuss Neil’s individual case, although I wasn’t actually trying to – I was trying to get an idea of the minimum payment they’d accept in the general scheme of things. “We’d look at his affordability. We’d look at his affordability,” was all the officer would say.
A few quotes from the talk with Neil:
Neil:
“My money’s been stopped. I’m only getting half the money… they are taking £30 a fortnight out for rent arrear, but you got to eat…I’ve only got £100 for a couple of week if that.
It’s been like that since September. I went down for an [Employment and Support Allowance] medical two week ago. I’m waiting for a reply for that right now. They said two to six weeks. That was two weeks ago now.
It must of gone okay, because I been down there about eight times altogether… if you go to prison over 13 week, they stop your claim. You got to start your claim all over again. I was locked up 12 days over the 13 weeks and they making me pay my rent, so I went about £1500 rent as well.
Now I’m on £130 a fortnight…[they’re] taking £30 out of that. And the housing – they’re putting an extra £10 charge on for rent now, more than I paid beforehand. that now I have to pay…I don’t know what it is…they say the lowest they can go [for repayments] is £30.
They hound you then for the money, because Christmas time – I missed two payments at Christmas, because I got £130 just before Christmas and I was [thinking] – I’m going to get nothing else into the New Year, so I thought “other priorities than them,” so I took it out of the bank. They’re on the phone, going on with themselves. I said, “hang on a minute.” They said, “can you make a payment now?” I said, “I’ve got nothing to give you.”
Yes, they’re saying, “can you pay this? Can you give us that?” They’re going on and on and on. I said, “I’ve got nothing to give you.” I said, “the way that you’re going on, you’re making me feel like going back to the flat and committing suicide, because of the pressure that you’re putting me under.” Next minute, I’ve got ambulance people phoning me, [saying] “are you okay?”
I been in the flat for four, five years now. No arrears [until recently], no complaints, no nothing. Twelve days over….
Went into prison for theft by finding. Load of slates in the alley. They’d been there for two year. They gave me eight month for it… 30 weeks. Yeah…[I did] 15 week. Slate were in the alley for two year.
They try to take it [debt money] out of the bank and because they took it out of the bank, the bank’s charged me now, because of them and [they’re] still saying…they still say they want to send me to court and all that…[it comes out] til I pay the lot, til I wipe it, or the council pay it… town hall.
I’m not being funny with you – I’ve not had loans, crisis loans, nothing from the social for like ten year and they’re still sending me letters saying that I owe them so much – “we’re taking this out of your money.” I don’t know where it is coming from, because I’ve got nothing for ten year. Whatever I owed, it would have had to been paid by now.”
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We’ve reached a point now where serious debt and benefits are going hand in hand. Common sense seems to have been abandoned. And the giant iceberg of debt that is Universal Credit for every claimant in the country, is drawing ever nearer.
I work collecting money when people fall behind with payments and this is an all too common theme if it’s not the council it’s the benefits agency. The benefits agency seem to be the worst just now they either stop the benefits all together or suspend them, what the hell do they think these poor people can live on, and this can go on for weeks at a time.
I seem to be in a good position with my company where I can help the people who need it most when they can’t afford their repayments.
The people who fall foul to these problems need help and support not ground into the depths of despair !!
And heaven help us when it is the folk who work in collection saying it’s crazy! When my husband worked in the Council offices it was the same. They were told NOT to tell folk about help. They did anyway, because these folk were destitute. Yet still, when we were struggling ourselves we fell through the gaps of not realising what we weren’t _told_ that a disabled person in a 4 bed private let they couldn’t heat had a right to be rehoused as the accommodation was unsuitable….My husband as I say , knew how such organisations withold info and we still fell through the cracks because with me so ill, he didn’t have teh time or the energy to fight it.
Getting worse , how do they expect people to pay the bills and buy only the little bit of food what people do buy on benefits , I have never seen so much cruelty all since the Tories got in power all this started to happen , higher powers tell them what they have to do so they follow the instructions, They causing more division and putting people at breaking point , how can you blame people falling into the trap of trying to find a way of getting money . I’ve seen s o many things going on lately , crime on increase , you can see why people turn to some kind of situation all due to putting people in positions where they don’t no where to turn . Thank god for the food banks and the people who give the time working in them , must be heart breaking some of the stories you hear. The saunctions and bullying what’s going on with DWP and councils not bothered anymore cause of the cuts the government put on them . So now it’s the poor having to pay for the governments spending . But while you watch that they give themselves huge pay rises , robbing expenses , eventually something will break and people will turn against all this cruelty . No trust in Job centres , No trust in any government body . This is what they doing to the people in the uk .
Last week our housing association posted out their usual blurb of rent statements ect and in the bundle was a flyer for a loan company called MONEYLINE. They were offering a loan of £300 over 32 weeks payable @ £12:36 a week. The interest rate was 197% !!!!!
On further investigation it turns out the loan company is run by an ex employee of another housing association !
So it seems its ok to promote ‘loan sharks’ as long as they are one of yours?
Full names & details on request
I have gone from ESA after 30years of illness to jobcentre to sign on for my moneyand i am still ill as it is an ongoing illness, i also lose £60 per 2 weeks, i now receive £146 per 2 weeks i have to pay £33 rent £20 gas £15 electric phone bill and the odd catalogue cos thats how i live as there is never any cash to buy anything cash, the rest is spent on food etc i DO NOT smoke as there is no way i could afford it, i am fed up eating shit food everyday to survive, so now the government has given me a criminal record, cos if i want something and i have no money i go shoplifting to pay for it and now that is how i live and i am 63, i will not give in they will not break me
@June Camp
At 63 you are approaching the date you can apply for 100% Pension Guarantee Credit which amongst other things will give you about £155 per week, 100% Housing Benefit and 100% Council Tax relief. Don’t bother with the Jobcentre, you need to contact the Pension Service. The number I have for them is 0345 6060285
Councils are very willing to serve summonses to those whose Council Tax arrears are very small amounts, in one case I know about, £6 with Court costs of £50. A nonsense that it took an MP to put a stop to.
It costs a council about £4.50 to “lay an information” at the Magistrates Court. However councils then add “costs” anything from £50 to well over £100 to a summons for a few quid. Those so-called “costs” actually act as a substantial revenue stream “earned” from those in most need which in fact is illegal – the judicial system can’t be used to raise revenue. The bulk of Liability Orders are imposed on those on benefits who fail to pay very small CT arrears, but to be fair Magistrates are generally loath to commit to prison unless it’s a blatant case of “Can pay, won’t pay”.
What is great concern is the readiness to pass on very small arrears to bailiff companies who then add £200-400 or more for their “cut”. Believe me, bailiff companies won’t show any compassion. Their fees are all that matters and they don’t care who’s hurt in the process.
I spent a few weeks working for First Choice Homes in November. Before that, I was employed by Citizens Advice and spent two years defending tenants in the county court, including First Choice Homes tenants. They usually won’t agree an affordable payment arrangement, which ordinarily is £3.70 per week for somebody on benefits, until they get to a court hearing. It is the court that decides whether the payment arrangement is reasonable, not the landlord. Unfortunately, more and more people in Oldham are being forced to claim universal credit. With UC, the housing association can apply to the DWP to deduct 10 or 20 per cent of a person’s weekly benefit for the rent arrears. This is being done even when there is a court order in place that says the tenant has to pay £3.70. I was not able to get an opportunity to challenge the legality of this while I was still in work (though the CAB doesn’t do that kind of campaigning, and in any case it seems they have bid for a council contract jointly with First Choice Homes, according to what one of FCHO’s supervisors told me, so they won’t want to upset the housing association by pursuing legal action against them.) But this needs to be challenged. Government departments and housing associations are not actually above the law, even when they try to act like it.
I can’t remember where I read this, but I read a statement recently, that said it was illegal for Banks to take charges from customers, where the only money in their accounts come from Benefits.
The money people are awarded in Benefits, is calculated to be the least amount a person can survive on to put a roof over their heads, pay for electic etc., and put food on the table, so taking away any of that basic money is taking away the person’s ability to survive!
So how are the DWP, the HA’s, and Banks, getting away with doing this?
Not a bad question. I’ve attempted to ask the DWP about minimum benefit levels in the past, with very little result:
http://www.katebelgrave.com/2015/11/exactly-how-far-can-the-dwp-cut-an-income/
They get away with all of this because of the lack of accountability… so few of these processes have a lot of eyes on them these days.
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Well my rent arrears are £500 a month plus £50pw rent when I don’t even receive £500 a month, basically been left destitute. Now even tho I have spinal fushion an host of othe problems, an currently a broken wrist, I have no choice but to try find a job!! I’m so depressed I don’t want to get out of bed in the morning and after a stressful few weeks think I’m on verge of a meltdown