On benefit sanctions:
Leafleting on Friday at Stockport jobcentre with Stockport United Against Austerity, I spoke at length with two (more) people who have been left destitute this year by benefit sanctions.
Craig was in his 20s. Anne was 50 (I’ve changed both names).
Craig was a Universal Credit claimant. Anne received jobseekers’ allowance.
Craig said he’d been sanctioned twice this year. His current sanction would run into June. He said he was getting about £30 a week to live on.
Anne was trying to survive on hardship payments of £40 a week. Her sanction was from March until June.
Both Craig and Anne had appealed their sanctions. Both had lost their appeals.
This Just. Never. Ends.
It’s still all too easy to find people in these situations – people who are forced to live on the edge because their benefits have been sanctioned. They can barely afford food. They certainly can’t afford to heat their homes adequately.
These are human rights issues. So is the fact that inflicting such hardship on people who are out of work and money is widely considered acceptable and even desirable. The world needs to wake up to that abuse.
Sanctions achieve nothing. They don’t address the real issues – the lack of work (especially for people who are disabled, or older), the failure of support (particularly for people with mental health issues and/or support needs) and the malaise that inevitably defines an outlook when people have been unemployed for a while and know that every single one of the DWP’s compulsory jobsearch activities is a charade.
I can’t make that last point strongly enough.
Attending jobcentres meetings, or pointless work courses, or compulsory websurf session where you must sit at a jobcentre computer and send endless CVs to people you’ll never hear back from – none of these mandatory jobsearch activities go ANYWHERE for so many people. Just about everyone I’ve talked to at Stockport so far has mentioned these aspects of jobsearch.
Every meeting, course, or web session is a slap in the face because of that.
Sanctions as punishment for people who are trapped in this circuit is out of all proportion to the “crimes.”
Stopping people’s already-meagre incomes and pushing them further under the breadline for the minor sins of missing jobcentre meetings, or forgetting sicknotes, or whatever, is the real criminal act.
Still, the state enjoys it. It certainly gives itself free licence.
Like most people I meet in these situations, Craig and Anne relied on friends or family when their money was stopped.
Craig said:
“Basically, I’ve been living off £120 a month since January… [It’s] dreadful. If it weren’t for my mum and dad, I would be…[he shrugged].
Anne said:
“It’s £40 a week [I get in hardship money]. I’m on Pay As You Go [for] gas and electric – ten pound a week on them two. Then you’ve got £30 a week on food… I even had to borrow £4 off her [Anne’s daughter] to get up here about my money [the bus ride to Stockport jobcentre from Anne’s place cost about £4]. I went to the bank on the Wednesday and I thought “Oh No.” I didn’t even have the £4. I had to borrow it off her. Don’t like asking, but what can I do.”
Anne said her daughter paid some rent, but that went towards housing costs – and anyway, her daughter was still two weeks’ shy of payday when Anne was sanctioned. She had little to spare. Not everyone has funds to bridge gaps of a couple of days, let alone several weeks. They can’t just ask for money from people they know – even though the DWP tells people to do exactly that when they’re sanctioned.
Craig said that he had serious mental health problems. He’d first been sanctioned from January to March. Then, he was sanctioned from March until June.
He said he’d been punished for not handing a sicknote into the jobcentre. He hadn’t handed in the sick note, because his mental health problems made leaving the house difficult.
“[I appealed the sanction] but they still said it weren’t acceptable. They were sticking with the same decision. I’ve been on Universal Credit for just over 12 months. [It’s] not too bad when you get your money, but [getting your money] – that’s the challenge.
[With my mental health problems] You can’t leave the house, really. It’s an illness, isn’t it. It’s not wanting not to leave the house.”
Anne said she’d been sanctioned in March for missing a job club appointment.
She said she’d been in hospital the night before the appointment with an asthma attack. She called the jobcentre to let advisers know she wouldn’t be in, but that she “still got bloody sanctioned for it.”
Anne said: “I come out of hospital the following day. I rung her [a jobcentre adviser]. She said, “Oh it’s all right. I’ll let her know.”
It wasn’t all right.
Anne also said that she’d been to Stockport council to ask for help with gas and electricity money. She ran into problems there. It seemed that the council wanted Anne’s daughter’s national insurance number – possibly because the daughter paid some rent. Anne didn’t know. I didn’t know. The rules for these things and the obstacles in front of them are impossible.
Anne said she lost her temper at the council, as people do:
“I don’t know my daughter’s national insurance number… [They said] “Can you text her?”… [but] she’s at work. She won’t answer.”
She said:
“I last appealed the sanction about two weeks ago. I got a letter saying they can’t do anything. When my money stopped and I had no money for two weeks…I’ve got 20p gas and 20p [on electric]. I started getting angry…
[My friend] put £50 in my bank. If it weren’t for him, I’d be on the floor.
[The] £43 is the hardship money – for gas, food, electric and toiletries. I do it at a pinch. I’ve got two quid now to last me until I get paid. I’m living on butties. The freezer chest is empty now. I can’t fill it.”
——-
And so on and on and on.
We’ll be back at Stockport jobcentre this week. Bet you we have plenty more conversations like these.
Enough really is enough now.
These are crimes against humanity & it really does need to stop.
Why aren’t this government behind bars for what they’re doing to the people of this once great country??!!!
Words really do fail me on how the DWP & this pathetic government keep on getting away with this time & time again!!!
Tottaly agree Kate it is fucking disgusting the way they are treating our fellow human beings, a nasty ideology hiding behind austerity.
Even if peoples humanitarian extended on to the pockets then the costs of administering this regime and the hidden costs to public services of fixing the problems it causes such as homelessness, mental and physical health issues, the strain on the NHS as some seek refuge claiming sickness even for a short while to get some sanity back.
Courses schemes and programs they have no affect on the job market at all and a waste of time and resources for the majority unless your only goal is to drive people into despair or secure a sanction.
Obviously not knowing the full ins and outs of either case I am sure they could have had a better outcome if help was out there, I presume they both appealed themselves and accepted the decision at the mandatory reconsideration ?
Attendance at a Work Club is entirely voluntary and the DWP do not monitor attendee so not sure why they would get a sanction for it ?
DWP Response:
“Job Clubs are not something that form part of the national support package
for claimants looking for work. Therefore, DWP holds no recorded information
specifying the criteria used to refer claimants, or whether participation is
deemed mandatory provision or activity.
“Work clubs however, are available as a means of providing valuable support
for claimants in their search for work. The role of Jobcentre Plus is to signpost
claimants to their Work Clubs if appropriate. Participation is completely
voluntary and there is no requirement for follow up on the number of claimants
who subsequently attend. ”
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/429964/response/1045093/attach/html/4/3693.pdf.html
This is why I try inform folk about Consent these third party parasites need it to secure the filthy lucre.
Hi Kate,
The benefit sanctions regime is used to prosecute an involuntary euthanasia programme along the lines of the Nazi’s Aktion T4. After 5 years of trying to have the disability hate crime committed against me by officials of the DWP investigated, I sued the chief constable of Merseyside Police. His Skeleton Argument gives the game away: the only crimes committed by the DWP against those on benefits which the police will investigate are a breach of Human Rights Article 2 – Right to Life and since February this year Article 3 – Torture and Inhuman Treatment. I have this in writing. So the DWP can keep on robbing hundreds of thousands of us each year of our legally entitled benefits with another 20,000 dying each year as a direct result. This is treason by chief constables.
Reading you story that is one hell of a fight you have taken on.
Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment is interesting though because the are certainly guilty of that.
We should all ring the police and report this crime on mass.
But Paul, the police won’t even record it. This is why I sued.
Check out my story here if you want. Take a good luck at my appeals page and the shysters who shafted me.There is plenty to digest. http://www.framedbythedwp.co.uk
Sorry Paul. Yes, you are right about torture and degrading treatment, as this is what happened to me when I was interviewed under caution over a non-existent claim to add a non-existent person.
I can see your argument and understand the frustration stress and cost it must have had on your life over the last 7 years.
The DWP are guilty of all sorts of human right abuses on a daily basis and get away with it.
Thankfully I never swallowed the pill and always realised how corrupt the system was.
At least you didn’t piss and moan like an impotent jerk and bend over and take it way up the tailpipe! to steal a phrase.
Are you continuing the fight or accepted justice is just as corrupt as the DWP so be pointless going any further ?
I am assuming I have a maximum of a year to live now. I am due to be migrated to UC next June. I watched with horror as both 2015 and 2017 failed to remove the Tories and since then I’ve been trying to face the inevitability of my situation. Have you ever tried to kill yourself? It’s a lot harder than most people realise but I cannot live in extreme poverty and I can’t magically fix 40 years of severe mental illness – and I have been trying since age 18. I’m doomed and I’m so sad about it. My life was stolen from me by a child abuser, now my life is being ended by my government.
Ab
I read your message with a very heavy heart my friend.
What you went through that has caused you a life full of pain, torment & sorrow only you will know & it breaks my heart to know there are still evil scumbag monsters out there that get away with this kind of thing!!.
My heart goes out to you for the amount of pain you’re still suffering & the inhumane treatment by this government that you are suffering, as I went through 8 months of sheer hell & anxiety after being told I was fit to work by pages of lies typed by a very Corrupt DWP so called “Healthcare Professional” those words right there must be the biggest lie in the history of a named career if there ever was one!!
I won my appeal with the help of my local “Welfare rights” team who were great & I honestly don’t know what I would’ve done without them. After spending months with no money at all that I was entitled too that the DWP never told me about, having to be humiliated by borrowing money off family just to survive!
Do you have a Welfare rights department that could help you Ab?
Take care
Ritchie
Ab, I too share your fear the move to UC Terrifies me #Empathy x
Same here not looking forward to moving on to UC at all whole new battle to fight right there.
They still have no information regarding “managed mandatory migration” and there is no way I am going to slip up and migrate naturally.
Yep, exactly, that’s why I won’t take any temporary work, it’s not worth breaking your JSA claim.
They say suicide is the cowards way out but i think it takes great strength and courage to make that choice and like you say it is not easy.
Hope is the one thing that keeps me going that things will change for the better sooner rather than later and refuse to let them win and become a victim.
Fighting back gives me sense of empowerment and feeling that I am back in control of my own life.
Basically do not let the bastards grind you down.
Ab, you might not want to hear this, and I’m sure many people will criticize and disagree, but you can find some solace & support via religion, a church group, a mosque or synagogue, whatever is your persuasion. Near me therecs a Buddhist centre run by a very nice nun, forexample, & when I lived in Bradford there’s the ‘Brothers’, a group of Franciscanmonks who help the poor. Think it over. And don’t write off or underestimate the power of prayer, solitude can be a starting point for silent communion with something, someone, bigger than yourself, no matter what others may say/think. You can also read some helpful books in thant respect (sorry for typos, my phone is knacked!). I’m speaking from personal experience. Hope that helps. For what it’s worth.
Nice one Trev!!!
Whatever helps is well worth mentioning no matter what anyone else thinks it has to say!!!
If it helps ab then all well & good & 2 fingers up to anyone that says otherwise mate!!!
Ritchie
https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/the-sin-of-suicide.html
A Christian view of suicide
When.people are feeling suicidal they need some help & support,not judgement.
I do not think it helps to tell someone that suicide is a sin do you not think they have more to worry about than you adding to the burden with your mumbo jumbo ?
Cheers Ritchie. I’m not suggesting people become Religious converts to any one particular faith but when people are at rock bottom & talking about suicide there are various groups & organizations out there who can provide some help & support,whether just someone to talk to or some practical help. That Buddhist nun helped me out last year when I was really skint & had no food, she left a bag of food on my doorstep, & in the past I’ve been fed at an Hare Krishna place. Sikh temples feed you too. As for silent Communion, solitude,prayer, meditation, ive had some tough times & low points in my life but have also had personal mysticalexperiences that few would believe, out of body experiences, clairvoyant visions, past life recall, etc. even Divine manifestations. Such experiences are reaffirming & life changing. And i don’t care whether anyone else believesme or not.
I hear you. In almost exactly the same situation.
Appalling state of affairs. When it comes to health problems and/or age the Jobcentre goes into denial and won’t accept for one minute that Barriers to work even exist. I’ve been asked in the past why I haven’t got a job and have had to explain that I’m in my 50s, haven’t worked recently, have no specific skills, no Driving Licence, no transport, have some health problems (high blood sugar, high cholesterol, Hiatus Hernia, Borderline Personality Disorder) am unable to work as fast as I did when I was in my 20s, and am competing against younger people with fresher skills, more energy, own transport etc. Who do you think the employer is most likely to hire, them or me? But it cut no ice. I have even been asked (more than once) to explain to some Dole Clerk what Borderline Personality Disorder is, which I should not have to do, it is enough that I have informed them and it is up to them to Google it and read what it says on MIND or the NHS website OR for someone higher up to do that. I knew someone who had to embarrassingly explain to some Dole Clerk what IBS is and how it affects him…”well it causes shite to dribbel down my leg…” wtf do they expect you to say to a question like that?
Most people still don’t believe me when I say how terrifyingly stressed I get & how my anxiety goes through the roof when the postman (not sure if they’re called that now in this PC world gone fcuking crazy) shall I call them post persons or her majesty’s postal delivery servants???!!! (What is this crazy world coming too!!!) Fuck it, ill call them what they’re known as…. Its the fucking POSTMAN!!!! FFS!!!
So, back to what I was saying……
The anxiety I feel every single time that very well known brown envelope drops through my letter box & I’m sweating cobs when I see it lying there on the floor!! Even before I open the fcuking thing, I know who it’s from as I’m pretty damn sure you all do too!!!
What now, what are they taking off me now, what mistakes have they made, what do I need to pay back, what sanctions are they imposing this time!!!!!!!……….
It really is too much!!!!
I consider myself a strong willed & strong minded person, so God only knows how those not so strong willed feel!!!!!
Then I was struck down with all this I’ll health shit, I was working every weekend at 14, got a job when I left school at 16 & worked damned hard every single day the rest of my life, working my way upto Operations Manager of a top world wide concrete manufacturing company where I was paying 40% tax for years & god knows how much I’ve paid in N.I over the years!!
I’m now 50yrs old & the last 18months I’ve suffered shit loads of health issues that I won’t bore any of you with, but, after all I’ve paid into this country in all these years, surely I deserve a little help??
What I found was, after being out of work for almost a year without claiming a single penny, spending my whole life’s savings before I claimed benefits after losing my job.
Spending all I had saved due to how ashamed this country makes you feel for claiming, was I was faced with being treated like an idol Bastard that hated work & wanted to sponge off everyone else. I was treated like a piece of shit & I now hate with a passion this government led by a woman that I totally fucking despise!!!
And I now hate with a passion this country that I would, at one point gone to war for & given my life for!!!
And that, because of how an English man, (sorry person) is how I feel after working every hour God sends, after so many years, paying thousands & thousands into a system, that gave me sweet FUCK ALL back, just when I needed it most, for the very first time in my life!
Sorry for the rant, but that’s now how I feel after being treated like scum by this scumbag government!!!
Postperson? Mail man, Fe-Mail man, Mail Woman….
Please no, Trev! Not “Fe-Mail”! I mean ha-ha, but surely “Postwoman”? That used to be fine. It sounds perfectly respectable to me. If I were pushing a trolley of post round my neck of the woods, I think I would be proud to be known as “the postwoman”. I would prefer to be known as a woman than as some gender-neutral nonsense. I have boobs. I don’t have a dick. I’m a WOMAN!
You are very intolerant person Alison what troubles you so much that you judge people so easily if they do not meet with your exacting standards ?
Do you really believe that genitalia defines who your are, that people who choose to be gender neutral is nonsense ?
“Postie” or “Communications Officer”. But you have my sympathy, Ritchie. Political correctness has gone too far. If he’s a man and he brings your post, he’s a postman, as far as I’m concerned.
My postman is my postman and he brings my white envelopes from ATOS/Maximus and my brown envelopes from the DWP. I watch for him every day. He does his round on a limp these days because his back is done in, but he can’t go on sick leave any more or he’ll get medically retired by the Royal Mail and then he’ll have to deal with the DWP.
Envelope Technician? Letterbox Operative? Franked & Stamped DocumentationDistributor? Deft Doggy Dodger?
They’re definitely deft at dodging the doggies – and penetrating the letter boxes with the thick brushes!
I created an account on the new Find A Job site at the Library this morning and uploaded my CV, then when I got back home I suddenly thought that I should go into my account settings & make sure the CV is set to Private, not open to Public view, but am unable to access my account now on my phone, it let me sign in but just says “loading your settings…” andnothing more happens.
why trev why why …….after all the shit with UJM why sign up with another dwp sponsored site that can only offer jobs that are posted elsewhere and probably used against you in a court of law.
I hope you were shrewd enough to use fake details if it was out of curiosity.
I thought we were supposed to. Can always delete it. Anyway, got into account settings using a different browser (Chrome) but there’s no options for setting CV to either Private or Public.
And, I have to sign on tomorrow so that’s something I can say I’ve done, counts as an ‘action’ I’ve taken. So long as I can sign on with the minimum of fuss & get in & out of there as quickly as possible that’s mission accomplished ’til the next fortnight. You’ve got to bullshit your way thru it somehow.
yep show your keen and on the ball, like john Lennon sang, whatever gets through the night… its all right.
You even sign same day as me then ,tuesdays same cycle. I handed in a jsa28 today so got 14 sickness
Thankfully will miss tomorrows appointment now not keen on facing the work coach again, I do sympathise with their situation but I have to look after my own interests, no one else will.
Well done, Trev, for trying to do the right thing, instead of trying to wheedle your way out with a sick form.
You put a lot of trust in your uninformed opinion pretty much the same way as you do in your blind faith.
I only wish I could get a sick note!
Why not trev used them up for this job seeking period?
IMHO, sanctioning people is wrong, people should be asking the DWP for the evidence they provided to the decision maker for the DM to even consider granting the sanction. In most cases, it is just the word of the person in the JCP office that they didn’t attend an appointment or apply for enough jobs, the DM doesn’t see a copy of the evidence like the letter plus proof of postage and receipt or photos of it being handed to the claimant, they just go on the word of the JCP office concerned. Same with applying for jobs two a week is enough but even applying for more might mean you are referred for a sanction for not applying for enough jobs. You just put in a subject access request for all the jobs that were available for you with your skills, they will try to claim it is not up to them to do what you asked of them, basically, it is up to you to search and apply. They are therefore not able, or unwilling, to show proof of the jobs available for a person with their particular skill set, in a court this would have the case thrown out.
People should stand up for themselves and demand the DWP/JCP get proof that would stand up in a court.
We want proof of postage and receipt or other evidence and if they won’t supply it we should prosecute them!
Yep if you do not stand up to them they will walk all over you.
I have a cheat sheet I take with me that has all the things I can refuse to do and why ,what the rules and regulations are to cover everything they might throw at me at any point in time to prevent them from interfering with my life.
Most of it is committed to memory now.
If the work coach can see in front of them in black and white the law they tend to pause for thought especially when mentioning getting MPs involved, maladministration and harassment.
I am very vocal when in a group environment and any chance I can to inform others about their rights I take so now I do not get sent on group sessions, was thrown off the last one.
last time I attended a group session the DWP woman said I was being “controversial” just because I said I was looking forward to being old enough to Retire.
Yep for gods sake do not hold any opinion that is contrary to their views it upsets the hive.
Watch out Trev, there is such a thing as a DWP Occupational Psychologist. You can get a referral to one of these, used to be voluntary under JSA, not sure about UC. But they’ll give you tests to see if you have any underlying anxiety about work and working.
Interesting Des, I wonder what happens if they discover you have, mandatory Electroconvulsive therapy possibly ?
That’s kind of what the session was about, referring people to the Health & Work Programme,but theyd be wasting theyre time with me, even the doctor concluded I was untreatable!
I meant ‘their’ not “they’re” (time) duh!
Still, the purpose of Sanctions is to teach us a lesson, according to Esther McVey, so that’s alright then…
She’s the one who needs a lesson
I’ve got news for her – I didn’t learn anything.
Some excellent criticisms of a system that has deliberately been set up to punish those who have the temerity to need support. I’m sure that Beveridge is spinning in his grave. The Tories have removed all semblance of a safety net, effectively substituting it with a latter day version of the Poor Law, with it’s ‘less eligibility’ clauses that seeks to herd people into jobs that pay starvation wages – jobs no less that will soon be automated. Even the bottom feeders of the retail market, chains such as Poundland are now installing self-service checkouts thus removing the need to employ staff.
The basis for much of the logic behind Universal Credit is rapidly becoming redundant, as the jobs we’re all supposed to be doing are all now either being done by a grossly overworked and underpaid someone else or rapidly becoming automated. It’s coming in very rapidly, and visibly in areas such as retail, and is set to be introduced on a big scale in customer service environments such as call centres. The impact will soon start to show as more and more businesses suffer because fewer and fewer people have the money to keep these businesses afloat. This is quite an old video, but it’s still very valid. I don’t endorse his values as I find capitalism odious, but I think his logic is spot on. As Yanis Varoufakis has pointed out, we’re stuck with capitalism for the time being as it’s the only economic system we have at present.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2gO4DKVpa8
As we know, the system is in total chaos, and UC hasn’t really got going yet. It’s my guess that UC will ultimately fail under the weight of it’s own inconsistencies and inefficiencies, as anyone who thinks about it for a moment or two realises. The crime in it all is the level of suffering that has been imposed on people just to punish them for being poor.
Well said and very much the way I see it.
Every area of labour is under threat or already succumb to the second wave of automation, the only barrier now is cost, humans can be cheaper than machines to run but that is diminishing as moor’s law is played out.
We can either fight against the inevitable or embrace it with a radical change in the way our society operates.
The utopian dream of people having the choice between working or devoting their time to communities, families,arts,sciences and learning can become a career choice now we have it our grasp.
I am not alone when I say we are just experiencing the “end days” of capitalism and democracy as we know it.
What emerges is anyone’s guess. I know for sure I am one small butterfly flapping with all other the butterflies in the hope of bringing about a real wind of change for the better.
Technology holds the key, the young tech gurus and billionaires have the vision, I am putting my trust in them to bring about the change more than the politicians.
Well that explains why we have so many unemployed young people pouring into our country looking for a job. It doesn’t look like we’ll have a labour shortage when we leave the EU, after all.
It’s suprising when you talk to people who are not unemployed, how little they know about the new system. About how strict it is, particularly Universal Credit.
And how hard the sanction system is on claimants. Leaving them absolutely destitute, in a way that would have been unthinkable years ago. No-one I have met who is not unemployed, really believes that claimants are sanctioned without reason. And that even if they are sanctioned, ‘social security’ won’t leave anyone with no money at all ! Really ! It shows how DWP spin has managed to put the changes forward as a positive thing, while concealing the really nasty aspects from the general public.
This is where democracy fails, we are a minority at the coal front everything seems black not much chance of real change as long as we remain a minority.
Good point Richard. Lot of people still think that there is some sort of financial safety-net if you get sanctioned. Like the old days.That nobody could be left with nothing at all. They just don’t see it. And again on the sanctions. That this would never happen just if someone was late, or forgot something. You get a kind of disbelief as well, that people are making it worse than it is.
My fairly new partner heard all about the PIP assessment from me. He came along. When I got the report (0 points), he read it, then turned to me and apologised. I asked why, and he said, “I trust you, but I thought you were exaggerating. You weren’t.”
I wish I had been. Still waiting for Tribunal date, 7 months later…
If you can’t get to your Work Capability Assessment, your Employment Support Allowance is stopped, your claim is closed and you cannot get a Hardship Payment, nor any money while you are appealing. It’s a cruel loophole that hits sick and disabled people twice as hard as those sanctioned by the Jobcentre.
That is not entirely true you can claim jsa along with the rest of us scumbags
Signed on today, dole clerk advised me of 3 possible jobs to apply for: school crossing patrol (ie lollipop person) part-time term-time only, DBS required, & only any good if it’s very close by but it doesn’t say. Then there’s Retail jobs at White Rose in Leeds, miles away, I’d be lucky to get there in one&half hrs, more like an hour & 45 mins. if trains/buses are on time, plus I have no Retail experience let alone interest. Other work she mentioned is catering/kitchen/waiter jobs for country pubs out in the sticks where you would need own transport. Hopeless. The fact that this was all she could come up with shows how fucked the local job market really is . It’s going totake me the rest of the week to apply for these jobs due to limited internet access, and even then is a total waste of time.
No need to apply for any of the vacancies if they are not suitable, easy for them to pull these out their arse without taking your circumstances into consideration.
You have up to 4 week in which to apply any vacancy they draw to your attention and if they are not accompanied by a written notified vacancy explaining all this and the consequences should you not then it is not mandatory to apply anyway.
Right. Cheers Paul. She didn’t give me anything in writing so its not mandatory. Just her box-ticking to validate her own existence then. I usually try & act on what theyve said just so there’s no comebacks later, even tho I know it’s all bollocks & just part of some elaborate & pointless charade. It’s time they closed down the jobcentres & scrapped conditionality ‘cos it’s all just pure bullshit.
Be careful Trev. You don’t have a fixed four weeks to make an application. If you have gone in to sign-on, and your advisor has printed a job off for you to apply for, you have until the closing date to apply for that job. If it’s two weeks ahead then that is all the time you have to apply for the vacancy.
There is no set time, just what is taken to be ‘a reasonable time ‘ in which to make the application.
So if the closing date is only two days away, you can protest. Still might not do you any good. But if you sit back and ignore any applications that they have given you to do, and the deadline for those applications passes. Then you are in trouble for failing to apply for a notified vacancy.
Quite right brad but not many jobs have a closing date but as the vacencies were not properly notified it is a moot point in this case.
DWP Decision Makers’ guide
Informing the claimant
34727 The word ‘informed’ is not defined in legislation and therefore has to be interpreted in its normal context. The context here is that it allows a sanction to be imposed on a claimant who fails or refuses to apply for a job vacancy or accept a job when offered it. That context does not require a special meaning to be given to it, so ’informed’ must be given its ordinary meaning.
34728 In its ordinary meaning, ‘informed’ means to provide information about something in particular in a formal manner. The important issue is that however the claimant is informed it should be
1. by an Emp O and
2. some obligation should be attached to it.
34729 The claimant should be clearly informed of
1. the specified vacancy and
2. what is expected of him and
3. by when he has to comply and
4. the consequences of failing to comply.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/351168/dmgch34.pdf
Always best to get any of the applications they give you to do, out of the way soon as possible. Same day is best, or next day. If the job doesn’t have a fixed closing date, and a lot of them don’t. If you leave it a week before doing anything about it, you could find that its closed. Happened to someone I know, he got sanctioned, appealed it, didn’t work. They said he had sufficient time to make the application, but failed to do so.
There is a world of difference between a proper notified vacancy taking the claimants circumstances into consideration than ones they swiftly printed off and have probably given everyone that day.
Each notified vacancy must be separate as well and cannot be lumped together like that.
No, she didn’t print anything off, just gave me these job suggestions verbally, maybe because she was running late, my appointment was 12.10 but didn’t get called ’til 12.30. I might apply for them anyway though, just to be on the safe side & as something to say I’ve done. It’s not like I’m going to get any of these jobs anyway.
Whatever you think best trev I understand how it is at the jcp been on it long enough myself.
I am not encouraging anyone to jeopardise their claims posting this shit and like said previously people will not just blindly follow what I am saying but it does make them think and maybe look a little deeper.
I get through like this every fortnight it is a battle but each battle I win I feel stronger,healthier and far more content before I got involved in fighting back.
I got sick of moaning about the shit they throw at us and feeling my life was no longer my own so became proactive rather than reactive to avoid a sanction at all costs.
It is hard to face up to them but I have anti authority issues and cannot do it any other way but I have no problem with those who choose the sometimes easier route of complying and keeping your head down, it is a sensible strategy at times.
But I never mention anything unless I have field tested it myself out there in the wild which I do often has never get to see the same works coach for a few sessions then it is back to square one with another.
In a way I am saying come on then do your worse bring it on and lets see how it goes, be a interesting journey going through the process but as of yet it has not happened they seem to yield once I make them aware, I am aware.
It’s a bloody farce though isn’t it. I’m sick of it.
Same here its a complete mind fuck of the highest order, lives are being lost, families are breaking up and no fucking future in sight except more of the same shit.
It looks like the new Find A Job site has crashed. I went on it this aft & saw a job to apply for but it took ages before it would let me attach a CV, then still wouldn’t send. I thought it was my internet connection on this crappy phone so I kept trying & after a couple of hours my application disappeared & it just said on the screen “the service is unavailable”. Wtf?
I not been on it trev but from what I gather it timestamps everything you do on there unlike UJM.
my JCP adviser says she has no access to peoples’ accounts on Find A Job & that they won’t be able to see it so she told me to just print off a list of what I’ve applied for.
They are going to be updating everyone claimant commitment to reflect the fact that they no longer have UJM and to sign them up to find a job.
Find a job tells more tales than ujm in so much as it timestamps everything you do and clearly displays it.
Now they are changing the way they do work search reviews each fortnight and although they cannot access it, they are going to start asking people for screenshots to show them on laptops or mobile devices or use the DWP computer it all looks like they have a fresh round of sanctions and want another bit at the cherry.
This foi has some information about faj interesting read.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/adzunas_find_a_job_technology_jo#incoming-1158772
Not been on find a job yet trev but interested to know if the timestamps show up on your printouts
The printer must cost a few bob at the library?
Maybe it’s not compatible with your phone, Trev. Many things don’t work on my phone. Try at the library tomorrow and see if you have any better luck.
I got my current laptop on E-bay for £60. If the new job site doesn’t work on your phone, you could look on E-bay and see what you can find in the way of a tablet.
I acquired my last phone and now my current one from people whose phones got upgraded by the companies they were with. You could ask around and see if anyone has a second-hand phone they don’t know what to do with. Beware, though. There’s no guarantee a new phone works on the new job site either.
If you have to spend more time at the library or local community centre or Jobcentre to use the internet, at least you won’t run up huge bills on your phone.
Cheers. I managed to apply for that job today in the library. Job sounds ok too, apart from it’s located on the other side of town right out on the outskirts & will take an hour by bus. I have absolutely no money for laptop or new phone.
It sounds like you’ll have to do all your job search at the library from now on. That is rather inconvenient, but at least you will keep your phone bills down.
Don’t forget to write down on your activity log that the new job site won’t work on your phone.
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