Why a private rented flat means poverty forever

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Here’s a short post on a topic that comes up more and more: homeless people who want to resist being placed in private sector tenancies by councils, because they know that private tenancies mean permanent poverty:

Readers of this site will know that I’ve published several interviews this year with Marsha, a 30-year-old homeless Newham woman who lives in a single-room homelessness hostel with her small daughter. That one room serves as living room and bedroom. The two share a bed in that room.

Marsha and her daughter in the one room in their hostel

Marsha is in deadlock with Newham council about future housing.

Marsha is desperate for a social housing flat – a secure(ish) tenancy and rent she might afford. The odds are against her getting such a flat. The odds are against most people. There are about 28,000 households on Newham council’s housing waiting list. Plenty of people on that list live in dire hostels and flats.

The council has insisted through the year that the numbers mean that Marsha’s only real option is a private flat. (There was mention of a flat owned by a charity at one point, but the rent on that was still high and there was much discussion re: whether the flat was ready or not).

The problem is that Marsha knows that private rented housing will very likely finish her chances of financial independence.

“the private rents and the way it is going … it is unaffordable to me… because at the end of the day, what job am I going to be working where I’m working enough, so I’m able to cover my rent and my monthly expenses? I want to put myself in a space where I can have a good income and provide for [my daughter]… “

So, Marsha does what people do. She waits in the homelessness hostel and hopes to avoid eviction from the hostel while she makes a case for social housing. Bidding on social housing flats isn’t going too well. It’s not unusual for people to find themselves in a queue of over a thousand for a place in Newham.

Thing is – Marsha has decided that trying to beat the odds to get social housing makes more sense than trying to force the sums for private rentals to add.

She has a point. It’s a point I hear more and more.

Marsha has looked at cheap private flats out of London. There is a major problem with flats out of London, though (there’s more than one major problem, but we’ll focus on one for now). If she leaves London, Marsha will be miles and a costly train-trip away from her mother. Her mother is the person who provides the free childcare that Marsha needs while she finishes qualifications and looks for work.

Without that free childcare, she’s had it.

Looking for a private rented flat in London is literally a non-starter. The ever-expanding gap between local housing allowance entitlements (which are frozen) and market rents sees to that. Marsha could not meet the shortfall between her LHA allowance and a private rent once the council stopped paying topups.

Private landlords can easily raise rents and evict tenants for people who’ll pay more. If that happened, finding another flat that Marsha could afford, or a landlord who’d even take an LHA tenant, would be near-impossible:

“…this is not the life that I want for [my daughter]…she’s going to grow up relying [on the system] in the same way…I want her to see that I want to work… I want to pay tax. I want to get into the system where I am contributing to that instead of taking from it…”

So, Marsha waits.

She takes a big risk doing that. Turning down a council offer of a private flat – wherever that flat is and whatever state it is in – can finish a homeless person’s chances of housing help from a council. A council can decide that someone has made themselves homeless intentionally if that person says No to a private flat. Eviction from a hostel, or any temporary accommodation, can quickly follow that.

Point is – people will take that risk to avoid private rentals. That’s where we’re at.

It is not – as I’m sure critics of people on benefits will argue – that homeless people have gotten all above themselves and refuse private places because they feel entitled to low-cost social housing in major cities.

It is about homeless people knowing that a private rental is guaranteed to trap them in arrears and ongoing poverty, and return them to homelessness, sofa-surfing and hostels. Why embark on that journey if you’re already there?

Blogging will be light-ish until the end of the year as am finishing up a transcription project of interviews, and homelessness and jobcentre meeting recordings. Still available for contact here.

 

140 thoughts on “Why a private rented flat means poverty forever”

  1. I suppose a lot of it depends on location, and other things like the quality of the property, availability, good landlords vs. bad ones. I’ve seen both sides of the coin, I’ve been in private rent for about 5 years and in Social Housing for about 17 years prior to that. I would say on the whole you are generally better in Social Housing with an Housing Association, the properties are usually better maintained and furnished/decorated to a higher standard. Your Rights as a tenant are more protected and adhered to with a HA than a private landlord. The flat I’m in now is not up to the same standards as my previous flats with HA, but the rent and Council Tax is the same, only now my utility bills are actually cheaper. In the HA flats they installed central heating that cost a lot to run, whereas now I’ve got virtually no heating. I’ve got double glazing now but didn’t in the HA flats I lived in. My electricity is now on a dodgy old coin meter that has never been re-calibrated this century, so leccy is cheap. My gas was disconnected due to a leak a couple of Winters ago and was never fixed so I don’t have to pay for Gas anymore. There’s a lot of crime in this area, as in my previous neighbourhood with HA, but I would say the house/flat I’m in now is generally more peaceful than the HA ones where they had an habit of housing various assorted alcholics, smack heads and ex-offenders in the bedsit next door to my flat. In the North rents are obviously way cheaper than London unless you live in a posh place like Ilkley or Saltaire, etc. but if you’re willing to live in a more dodgy less affluent neighbourhood private rents are about the same as Social Housing, some of which can also be in dodgy places. There’s a difference though between single and having kids to also consider, which is a bit of a game changer – safe play areas, access to schools and amenities etc.

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  2. There are a few recent articles on housing and homelessness on Welfare Weekly:

    https://welfareweekly.com/3-in-4-people-agree-that-benefits-should-be-increased-to-prevent-homelessness/

    https://welfareweekly.com/benefits-freeze-pushing-low-income-families-to-the-brink-of-homelessness/

    https://welfareweekly.com/millions-struggling-to-pay-council-tax-and-other-essential-bills-finds-study/

    https://welfareweekly.com/cheaper-housing-main-reason-for-lower-poverty-rates-in-scotland/

    https://welfareweekly.com/a-homeless-person-dies-every-19-hours-in-austerity-britain/

    And this from inside housing that reveals that Newham Council spent £61 Million on temporary accommodation in 2016/17

    https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/the-cost-of-homelessness-council-spend-on-temporary-accommodation-revealed-57720

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  3. I am disabled and looking for a 1 bed flat or bungalow myself, the problem with a bungalow is they all seem to be for the over 60’s and ones that aren’t are not social housing and the rents are higher than social housing. The other thing is I need a level access shower as I cannot get into a bath.
    I bid on bungalows with showers and am turned down as not in the age bracket, I am beginning to wonder if someone fully fit is given a flat or bungalow at 60 with no disabilities when a person under 60 is told they do not meet the criteria? I would think needing a certain adaptation came before someone not when housing is fitted with the adaptation!

    I know some homes are specifically for a certain age group but disabilities should come before age, unless it’s a block of self contained flats/apartments with on site wardens and the resident has to pay for the warden in with their rent making the rent a lot higher than a self contained dwelling.
    Homeless people then have to buy all the furniture for the home, some stuff might be from second hand places or donated to a community fut=furniture store but pots, pans, and cutlery will be new as would cups. If they are on UC then it would include a loan from the DWP and payable over 12 months. The problem might be the money needed to buy all the stuff isn’t the amount the DWP gives in a loan.

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    • I do voluntary work for a charity organization that is primarily a foodbank but we also provide some household items free of charge to people in need who have been referred by either Social Services, the CAB, a Doctor etc. including pans, crockery, cutlery & utensils, duvets, bedding, towels, all of which has been donated and is mostly second-hand, but better than nothing if you’re broke and in need. The towels, bedding and duvets are all checked for cleanliness and condition before being given out, and all the pans, cups/mugs, crockery, cutlery etc. is washed. There is a big demand for all this stuff and we don’t have it in stock for long, though stocks are constantly being replenished through ongoing donations.

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      • P.S.
        We also provide some electrical stuff too, such as kettles and toasters, all used second hand donations, and it all has to be PAT tested before given out.

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  4. Well, at least as a tenant you get extra benefit by way of most of your rent being paid by the DWP, unlike those of us with a mortgage who get the ‘princely’ £317.82 pence a month to pay all bills (mortgage, gas, electricity, Council Tax (though we can claim Council Tax Support) TV Licence) Not forgetting the broadband and mobile you have to pay for because the DWP demands that you have them for looking for work. So, including the rent tenants have paid for them, they receive at least twice the benefits of a ‘home owner.’ (Mortgage payer)
    Sorry but I can’t have sympathy as from my ‘princely sum’ of £317.82 pence a month I am forced to try and exist on around £32.15 pence. Try it sometime, you may find what feeling suicidal feels like.

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    • Yes I do feel lucky to have my rent paid by Housing Benefit, and in my case it covers the whole amount (£80 p/w), but it’s a bit of a grotty flat tbh, and cold. If I was paying the rent myself though it really would feel like dead money, at least if you’re buying your own house then one day you’ll own it and it will have increased in value. I used to have a Mortgage a long time ago when I was married and houses were cheaper than today, feels like a lifetime ago, I was working full time then as well. But yeah, the Housing Benefit is also a big factor to consider if I were to get a job as then I’d have to pay the rent myself, along with full Council Tax, National Insurance, Income Tax, travel costs – there wouldn’t be much left over out of Min. Wage. Life can be hard for many of us in a variety of different ways, but try not to let it get you down, and if you do find yourself having suicidal thoughts please talk to someone or see your Doctor. I’m totally skint this week, have just eaten the last of the beans and toast, it’ll be porridge for the rest of the week til Friday when I get my JSA, then I can pay last week’s Water payment that I skipped, and hope I haven’t got a Bank charge for going overdrawn today when my phone payment went out but £6.50 short. Life is shit, I agree, but at least we’re not in Syria, and who knows maybe things will improve one day.

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      • trev: you speak as if only tenants would pay full Council Tax, National Insurance, Income Tax, travel costs, etc. if they were fortunate enough to find work. The fact is we all would, and believe me it’s a lot tougher to live on £3813.84 pence a year without the ‘luxury’ of rent, etc. being paid for you.

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        • No doubt it is Mike, but like I said you will eventually own your home at least, whereas rent is just dead money. But I suppose either way, whether you buy/own or rent, a dwelling is ultimately nothing more than a roof over your head until you finally die. I don’t know about you but I don’t have any children and at least I’m not stuck in some hostel or crappy temporary accommodation with kids to look after, that’s hardly an envious position to be in. Regarding working, the costs of living don’t match up to wages unless you’re highly skilled or have a really good job. And having no transport and relying on buses/trains to commute would be unfeasible for many of the job vacancies I see advertised. I don’t know what the answers are, other than a total regime change and a more equitable distribution of wealth, but how or if that happens remains to be seen. I’m just hoping to live long enough to get my State Pension, that’s the best I can hope for (in the absence of a lottery win!).
          You could try the CAB for some financial advice, there might be something you’ve overlooked that could help in some small way, for instance I think I heard somewhere that Water companies have some sort of Hardship facility whereby your bill could be reduced, worth looking into (perhaps someone else on here might know more about that?). I got my Water bill reduced significantly simply by requesting a meter, knowing full well that they couldn’t install one as I have a shared stopcock, so then in that event they have to give you a reduction. The CAB helped me with my debts though and I am now Officially Insolvent, my old debts to two Banks and Npower have been written off. It’s worth asking if they can help you in some way (though as an home buyer I’m not suggesting you go for Insolvency).

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          • trev: I take on board all you (and the other people) say but by your own admission the benefit you receive for rent is more than the benefit I receive for a week (as will be the case for all tenants) I have spoken with a benefits adviser and I am not entitled to, nor would I be given any further help or benefits (It was he who also informed me that receiving help with mortgage interest payments was only a loan and would mean an attachment being placed on my property. Why aren’t benefits for rent treated as a loan?) I don’t have any debts and yes, I do receive a reduction in water rates, without which my ‘budget’ would be a monthly negative of almost £50 (Overdrawn) Will Quince MP. Minister for Welfare Delivery states, ‘Claimants in receipt of contributory-based ESA cannot claim help with housing costs/SMI’ Well, I would imagine rent is a ‘housing cost,’ yet once again benefit is received for rent. He also claims that changing support for mortgage interest payments (SMI) into loans ‘is about increasing fairness and sustainability.’ Can you, or anyone show where that ‘fairness’ is? With no wish to be, or appear argumentative I must say that I cannot see any fairness in providing twice the benefits for tenants over homeowners/buyers. I’m not asking for anyone to buy my home for me, all I would seek is something a bit nearer fairness.

          • I agree with you Mike it doesn’t seem fair that Mortgage assistance (if you can call it that) should be a repayable loan, especially when you consider the fortunes being made out of Housing Benefit by private landlords who buy-to-rent and are coining it in big style and most of them never spend anything on maintaining their properties. Claimants in high-rent areas have had their Benefits capped because Housing Benefit was included in the amount they received yet that money goes in the pockets of the landlords. I wish you the best of luck with your situation, and the only other thing I can suggest is you take in a lodger and also grow your own veg in the summer (which I used to do at my previous home and it helped me get through some tough times, living on homegrown spinach, green beans and potatoes!).

          • P.S.
            Come to think of it, you might even qualify for food parcels from your local foodbank. Worth enquiring about.

          • Sorry, having served this Country for many years as well as working for over 45 years since leaving school I’m far too proud to visit a food bank. Yeah, that’s my fault and my choice, but it’s me, I’ve never seen myself as ‘one in need of charity.’

    • That’s a bit of a nasty attitude, to be honest. Whilst it’s true that home ‘owners’ get a raw deal, it’s not as if those of us who pay rent actually see that money, (well, under UC we do, but the wise amongst us ensure that we only see it very fleetingly lest we fall into temptation and the trap of otherwise spending it, thus fulfilling the Tories notion that the poor and unemployed are indeed irrevocably feckless. Instead of having a go at those of us who merely appear to be better off, you’d do both your own, and the cause of the rest of us much more good by acknowledging that we’re all up shit creek in the same boat, and that perhaps now isn’t the time to start chucking the ordure around.

      Mortgage payers have always had a raw deal when it comes to the benefit system, as even in the ‘good’ old days of Unemployment Benefit only the interest on the loan was paid – but at least that kept people in their homes. Now it’s only paid after six months have elapsed, and the payments are, I believe, just a loan. I’m sure there are some cleverly worded reasonings for this available, which might convince slower witted voters, but essentially the issue is that people have homes.

      So, I would suggest to try to avoid falling into the trap set for us, and buy into the rhetoric that says “look at how well off those people on benefits who rent their homes are, they get ALL their rent paid”. You could also add spurious stories about large flat screen TVs and foreign holidays. Come off it, we get the same £73.10 a week that you do, and, unless we live in Wales or Scotland, we have to pay the same element of Council tax, and also all the same utility bills etc. Yes, it’s bloody unfair that those with mortgages are effectively discriminated against, but it’s hardly our fault, and we are not getting rich from the receipt of the housing element of UC – the landlords are, representatives of our class enemies. Aim your vitriol, and anything else you might have, in their direction, not ours.

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      • I see you’re a bit out of touch. Support for Mortgage Interest (SMI) can be applied for after 39 weeks, I think you’ll find that is nine (9) and not six (6) months.

        There is no vitriol aimed at anyone, except from yourself seemingly. The point is that the whole of your £73.10 pence a week goes into your pocket, I and every other homeowner has to first think about keeping that roof over our heads. Even someone with mortgage insurance, who has the mortgage paid through that insurance, is considered to have an income which is that payment of the mortgage paid by the insurance.

        The bottom line is, that you cannot disagree that tenants are better off because they have rents paid. So again, I ask, ‘Where is the fairness?’ A subject you’re happy to avoid.

        If you have kids do you ‘give’ one pocket money/allowance yet ‘loan’ it to the other one? Tsk Tsk Tsk

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        • Read what I wrote again. I mentioned several times that the system is unfair. It would seem you’re blind as well as hard of understanding. Indeed, the whole thrust of my argument supports your notion that the system is unfair, but at least I didn’t launch a veiled attack on people who rent. FFS, we’re talking about miniscule sums of money here, if considered in the order of things, and you’re begrudging those of us who rent. We are not your enemy, and could be persuaded to be an ally, but you seem hell-bent on siding with those who keep you, and us down.

          I suspect you might be one of those useful idiots who support the Tories/UKIP/Brexit Party, and who thinks, because you’ve got a mortgage it makes you better than the rest of us. Give us a break. Focus on who the real enemy is, will you?

          It’s indicative of how petulant and small-minded you appear to be when all you could find wrong with my argument was that I got the chronology a little mixed up. This did not change my basic argument, which you chose to ignore, that yes, the system is grossly unfair, and always has been.

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          • And no, the whole of that magnificent sum of £73.10 does not go into our pockets – we have TV licences to buy, internet charges, utility bills and all the other little things that everyone has to pay.

            The way you complain would be enough to suggest that the notion that we who rent our homes do indeed suffer from an embarrassment of riches has credibility.

            You could always sell your house and live off the proceeds of that until you were under the threshold and then apply for UC and get the rent element too.

          • All I see here is an insulting, abusive, argumentative individual. My point was that tenants receive (due to housing benefit) more than twice the benefit received by homeowners. As you seem to enjoy being insulting and abusive I leave you with just two words, the second being ‘Off.’

          • Sorry Trev, I forgot that you also have to pay council tax Trev. We get that paid for us in Wales by the Assembly government.

        • @ Mike-

          If having a mortgage and being on benefits is so onerous, why don’t you sell the house?

          I can disagree that tenants are better off because ‘they have their rents paid’. That is because most of them don’t get it paid, not in full. They have to make up the shortfall out of their JSA (or the equivalent in Universal Credit).

          And nobody ‘chooses’ to go to a food bank, they go because they have to. As would you if it really came down to it, pride or otherwise.

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  6. It seems to be rife among the private companies (look at the bonuses paid by Thomas Cook, look at all the others) When the franchisee lost the East Coast rail line a few years ago the Government was advised to re-nationalise that line as it was making a profit. The Government’s contempt can be seen from it’s decision to offer another Company the franchise.

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    • I don’t know about the East coast but the Trans Pennine line is notoriously crap, and for this guy to get a 44% pay rise beggars belief. Who else gets such a huge pay increase? Other workers are lucky to get any rise at all, or maybe 1 or 2%, but 44% ?!

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    • Yes and the Jobcentre don’t know what to do with us so they send us on pointless courses one after another to ensure that we remain ‘hidden’, out of sight is out of mind. I’m going to be sat in a classroom 3 days a week for the next 6 weeks and from what I can make out from the sketchy details – that I was only told when I insisted they tell me the title of the course, its structure, content and expected outcomes – it mainly seems to be about how to use a tablet for doing jobsearch! I can learn that in 10 minutes.

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      • One wonders how much the company contracted to deliver that course was paid out of public funds. Decent, well planned training courses that actually lead to something are one thing, these mickey-mouse, scam courses are just a waste of money, and our time.

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        • Absolutely. It also includes advice on how to budget, can’t wait for that one, I’ll have to remind them that UK Benefits are underpaid by at least 40% and that was before the JSA freeze. No one can adequately live on £73 p/w (less Council Tax = approx. £68 p/w in my case). The company in question is Interserve.

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          • Oh dear, you have my sympathies Trev – I was under Interserve for two years when on Workfare… Wasn’t too bad actually, as they had to provide a Welsh language service for me… Which they did, but it didn’t amount to much.

        • I attended the Induction today, spent the whole day sat in a classroom filling in forms, identifying strengths and weaknesses, what I need to work on, how I will do that and by when, and coming up with stated goals etc. If only life was so easy and straightforward. I have never had a clue what sort of job I want to do and have never had any goals. I have just drifted through life doing all sorts of jobs most of which I thoroughly hated. Not that there are many opportunities nowadays for someone of my age with no transport etc. The Interserve woman informed us that the course is mandatory and our Benefits will be Sanctioned if we fail to attend or complete it. I’m not sure if that’s actually correct, the Jobcentre certainly didn’t mention it, just ignored my objections and went ahead with referring me, even though I’ve done this type of thing several times before. It’s just more of the same old shit by the looks of it.

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        • Tomorrow we are doing a “team building” exercise, consisting of a competition between two teams to see who can construct the tallest tower made of dried spaghetti and marshmallows. We spent this afternoon writing about how we plan to do this, what role each person is to perform in this pointless exercise and how we arrived at those decisions. Taxpayers’ money well spent (not to mention our precious time on this earth) !

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        • Yes, this problem has a long history in Wales yet there are an even greater number of homes that are in use – as holiday homes, so they aren’t lived in all year round, so effectively they are ’empty homes’ too. Even worse, the sale of houses as holiday homes inflates houses to ridiculous levels way beyond what local people can afford, plus removes a potential home from the area. Some advocate the building of more social housing, but often this would lead to overdevelopment.

          It’s never good to see empty, derelict houses, but that is one of the most impactful images I have in my mind from my childhood in rural Wales – the sheer number of empty and derelict houses caused by depopulation – many places in Wales had far larger populations in 1870 that they did in 1970. That’s changed somewhat since 1970, particularly in the 1980s and 90s when it was seen as the trendy thing to do, move to Wales and the ‘good life’ Many of the houses that I saw as a child were in the last stages of dereliction, and having thatched roofs and cob (basically mud) walls, they soon returned to nature once the corrugated iron roof rusted through/blew off/was removed and the thatch rotted. I spent many an hour as a small boy exploring those houses, often distracted to them on my two mile walk home from school, ( I shudder to think what child protection bods would think about allowing a six year old to wander home, alone, from school over that distance – I did, however, get driven to school. I probably wouldn’t have got there otherwise as I would have found something far more interesting to do)

          I also remember arriving in Cardiff in 1986 and being struck by the number of empty and semi-derelict houses, some of which were in an even worse state, basically just empty, roofless shells. This was just outside the city centre. Soon after I arrived though plans started for large scale redevelopment of what was the docks area of Cardiff, which had been disused and derelict for some years, a vast area that was once given over to railway sidings to hold the coal wagons awaiting unloading into ships for export.

          Since that time thousands of rather bland apartments have been built in that area, and now large areas of green belt are being carved up and ‘developed’ but precious little of that is badly needed social housing. mostly it’s speculative development. The city centre has also been largely redeveloped, and quite large amounts of residential accommodation built, but hardly any of it social housing – and even when it has been built, either in the city centre, or what is now called Cardiff Bay, the rents and service charges are ridiculous. The latest development ‘plague’ is specialised student accomodation, and even though it was obvious that the bubble on that had burst some two years ago, mainly because there was too much of it, and it is just too expensive, the Labour council still allows more to be built, and now they’re considering giving over some of it for housing people who would otherwise be eligible for social housing. However, student accommodation isn’t built to the correct standards, and developers only want to built that kind of property because they don’t have to make any kind of Section 106 contribution. Near me there are three quite large student accommodation blocks that have been built in the past two years, and there is another that has been granted planning permission, and that’s just in one small part of the city. In the city centre it’s even worse and there are at least seven such developments.

          Many of the empty houses are in the ‘wrong’ places, in areas where there is no work, and hasn’t been since Thatcher wrecked the industrial base that formed the only business in town in many areas of Wales.

          At present, the Valleys still have a bit of an image problem to outsiders, but many of them are truly beautiful and green. They were always relatively green, as industry only existed in the valley bottoms, the upland areas being pastoral so they formed quite a unique industrial landscape. The area is ripe for being ‘discovered’ by the likes of the Guardian lifestyle journos, and that could bring to them the huge issues and challenges that face the more recogniseably ‘pretty’ bit of Wales, with escalating house prices and AirBnB everywhere excluding local people.

          We can live in hope that one day we’ll return to a time of sane housing policies where houses are homes once again and not financial assets, and that it will become socially unacceptable for there to be empty houses whilst there are homeless people and families on social housing waiting lists.

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          • I’m sure there are plenty of empty houses going to waste in England too but I don’t know if anyone has counted them. I know when I lived in Bradford a few years ago there were lots of old houses that had been left empty for years and fallen into disrepair, boarded up, semi-derelict, the junkies had broken in to do their drugs or sleep for the night, pipes and wiring ripped out and weighed in, fires lit, and what were once fine Victorian houses end up getting totally trashed, and the Council don’t do enough to protect or save them.

  11. I didn’t pick up on this because I haven’t been receiving post updates-just the lead story which I decided to look at…….thinking it hadn’t been responded to….

    How sad all this is. The Tories have us by the balls don’t they? What we are reduced to is arguing that each of us has worse situation than the other, as the scum filth ‘running’ this country smirk that that is how we can be controlled.

    Mike: renters face their own problems with struggle, truly they do.
    Trev: I don’t see rent money as wasted money. IF it works, I prefer someone to take responsibility for the bricks and mortar, and will remain of the belief that if you don’t buy outright; you don’t own the home, the bank does!
    (I was once asked by an Oz MP what I would do if I had more money? I told him I would rent luxury!)
    Padi: you are quite right. What else is there to say? We are ALL getting screwed.
    Trev: I don’t agree with you over HA’s. They are largely unregulated because they are private; and it shows. They do not provide superior accommodation; some of it is a shocker, but it’s the old: ‘you should be grateful’ thing.
    To say I hate HA’s (with very good reason), is a massive understatement; my hatred is pathological. Fuck them and fuck the Tories.

    And of course, my situation is better than most of you, so I should be grateful? Cold day/hell. I nearly took my life in 2015 because of this HA. I bloody well sweated drops of blood for this. I bloody earned what I have: a place to live not a home.

    I am so very sorry. I cannot believe some of the stuff I read here, but it’s cause is conservatism and only conservatism.
    Direct your anger at them, not each other. At THEM.

    If this sounds patronising; tough tits. I’m tired of watching the struggle of effect, whilst cause is so insulated and gets worse and worse.

    I mean it: I am so sorry for this. If we had a day like in the film ‘The Purge’, even at my age I would start at 12.01am. It would be a sodding bloodbath.

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    • I was just speaking of my own experience regarding HA , the flats I had were generally better appointed and more well maintained than the private one I’m in now, there was no Bond to pay when beginning a Tenancy, brand new fitted kitchens and with a brand new washing machine provided, and central heating, though the heating was expensive to run, there was no double glazing (though there might be by now), and there were problems with antisocial neighbours.

      I meant that I see Rent as ‘dead money’ so to speak if you are in the position of paying it yourself and unable to get Housing Benefit, in comparison to buying /owning a house that appreciates in value, which you can eventually sell at a profit in the future. Well at least that’s how things used to work out, but nowadays with the extortionate price of houses to begin with and the vast amounts you have to borrow, and the length of time it takes to pay it off, I don’t think I’d bother.

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    • ”Mary Magdalene was a prostitute and also much beloved by the Lord. There’s nothing wrong with private enterprise and surely being able to support yourself and family by using what assets the Almighty has given you is preferable to a parasitical life leaching tax payer’s money from the state by way of welfare? God bless you and keep you, I am working for you.”

      Was this REALLY the response (today) from the Minister? (On the link you put up Trev). I’m seriously asking if this is a spoof?

      If this true……actually I don’t know what to say, I don’t.

      Reply ↓

      • I think that bit (you quoted) was just added by someone in the comments section using Therese Coffey’s name, probably as a sarcastic reference to the fact that she’s a devout Catholic. You get a lot of people messing about and ‘sock-puppeting’ in the comments section on that particular blog (and quite a few trolls as well).

        Reply ↓

        • Well I’ll add to the religious theme: Thank God.

          Nothing; not a damned thing would surprise me about the pond scum that are Tories, so I couldn’t be sure.

          Reply ↓

          • That’s perfectly understandable Linda. I’m beginning to detect a bit of a theme though; Coffey is in charge of the DWP and is a Catholic, IDS is also a Catholic but certainly doesn’t seem to be in the least bit Christian, or if he is then he is for a Catholic rather oddly obsessed with enforcing the Protestant Work Ethic, Tony Blair converted to Catholicism after playing his part in turning the Middle East into Hell on earth (perhaps an attempt to save his soul?), whilst David Cameron famously stated (repeatedly) that Britain is a Christian nation though the Policies that he and Osborne implemented were far from Christian in their approach and effect, doing nothing to ease the plight of the sick and the poor but demonizing and punishing them instead. Fucking hypocrisy = this Sunday’s thought for the day

          • You know what you are Trev? You’re a conspiracy theorist!

            I wrote the same thing on a Gardian topic yesterday. Question any mainstream view, and that is how our Lords and masters will shut down debate; -by ridicule.

            (Nice to see our so called middle ground party the Lying Demons are going to assist the Conservative party to entrench their grip on the country. What reward will Stinson and her cronies get this time?)

  17. Not a great approach by Jeremy Corbyn to announce that he won’t necessarily resign if he loses. I hope he is not going to make a pig’s ear of this. If he can’t defeat the Tories we could be stuck with Boris Johnson for the next 5 years !

    Reply ↓

    • Nearly quarter of a million quid down the drain on misleading propaganda whilst people can’t afford to put food on the table.

      Reply ↓

    • The DWP ad campaign was the very definition of ‘fake news’ ! Will anyone be held to account? Will Therese Coffey resign? I very much doubt it. The Tories just lie through their teeth, using public money to do so, and get away with it. Should be riots.

      Reply ↓

      • I think if on Dec 13th we still have Johnson and a Tory government you might not have to wait long for those riots – especially if Brexit goes through.

        The loudest complainers will be, of course, those who voted Leave and then voted for the Tories and the Brexit Party in this coming election.

        Reply ↓

        • On the other hand the Brexit party will have no chance of winning the election but could take votes away from the Tories, but also possibly some votes away from Labour too! It’s anyone’s guess, who knows what the outcome will be.

          Reply ↓

      • I’m not of any political persuasion (unlike seeming many who comment on this and other threads) and neither do I support any MP, but why should Therese Coffey resign? She wasn’t at the helm at the start of the ads campaign so clearly the blame doesn’t lie with her. The people who should be got rid of are the people who come up with these ads. Then again, go back over the last umpteen elections and you’ll hear every Party spouting that once in power they will slash the number by ‘X tens of thousands’ (the last figure I recall was, I believe 40,000) yet none have been dismissed. Job Centre staff are (Un)Civil Servants and every time I visit my Job Centre the number of Staff appears to have increased, and still with an amount in double figures sitting at desks doing nothing or just chatting amongst themselves.

        Reply ↓

        • Well, I said Coffey because she is the one in charge of the DWP at the moment so any failures of her Department are now her responsibility. But if not Coffey then someone else higher up should take the blame, the buck has to stop somewhere, and I’ve already said that Boris should resign. I guess it would have been done on Amber Rudd’s watch but she’s already jumped ship.
          I’m doing (another) employability skills course at the moment and the tutor, who is well connected with the Jobcentre, has said that they are recruiting a lot more JCP Work Coaches for my area. I don’t if that’s in preparation for full migration to Universal Credit, or if they’re gearing-up for the after effects of Brexit.

          Reply ↓

          • P.S.
            I might add that I am not a member of any Political party, though I am generally supportive of Labour now that Corbyn and McDonnell are at the helm, and I have always had a deep hatred of the Tories.

          • I’ll add that I too am not a member of any party but consider myself to be very much on the libertarian left. This doesn’t mean that I necessarily vote Labour, though it would seem that this time around I have no option but to unless I choose not to vote at all, my usual option not standing in this constituency to give the Yellow Tories a free run!

        • Coffey should resign.

          I care little if it is Coffey or her Labour/LieDems/Monster Raving etc party, counterpart.
          It is a cruel heartless vicious soulless -add your insult HERE,- system.
          Whoever comes in and perpetuates it; support it; defends it, needs to lose their job.
          They are politicians so of course they hardly ever resign. I don’t care where the buck stops; this woman would be a good start, and her successor, and their successor.
          If these creatures win, and I fear they are going to, -then this will empower them (you know the thing; ‘the will of the people’), and things will get worse, much worse.

          The only small embryonic pinprick of light that I am starting to see, is that more and more groups/blogs/people, and even our wonderful mainstream press, are now highlighting how bad things are. Anger is increasing. GOOD.
          If these pond scum DO win though, it will be because so many of those people on the arse end of society, just a heartbeat away from engaging with the DWP, –will have voted for them.

          And yes, I confirm that I am politically biased. I am a Labour Party supporter. Not the Judas crap that has masquerading as ‘Labour’ for years, but the party that was supposed to represent workers and disadvantaged people.
          I make no apology for being so. No Right or far Right party has ever given a monkeys testicle’s for the backbone of this and every other country; it’s workers.
          Damn right I’m politically biased, and angrily aware that for decades now you would not have been able to slide a razor blade between the two major parties; they were no damn different.
          We are so far over to the Right now that a socialist leader is viewed as the spawn of Satan.

          Ah sod it! That’ll do.

          Reply ↓

  25. So the Government have several thousand troops on standby to prevent riots/looting if and when Brexit happens, but where were they over the last couple of days when Yorkshire was deluged? They could have helped with shoring-up river banks, distributing sand bags, evacuating people to safety. Houses down the bottom of my road, a hundred yards away, were flooded and the local park was under 5ft of water yesterday, other areas are more worse affected. Where were the fucking army?

    Reply ↓

    • And this has what to do with the subject of this thread? As someone who served for many years I would ask why the military should be expected to get all the shit? You (like myself) are unemployed, why weren’t you ‘shoring-up river banks, distributing sand bags, evacuating people to safety?’ Probably because of your ‘Oh no, not me, I’m unemployed!’ Just because we’re unemployed doesn’t mane we can’t help ourselves and/or others. Sorry Trev, but having followed this site for a long time, on many threads I’m left with the impression that you’re nothing but an agitator with a chip on his shoulder. You’re problem seems to be that you want to receive the living wage and remain unemployed, quite happy to have others do your bidding.

      Reply ↓

      • It was gracious of Trev to apologize to you; I WILL NOT.

        His point was bang on. You mention the military. You take a strident stance on what their role is. I too have some knowledge of the military.

        I am/was a third generation serving officer. My Father, two Brothers and myself served in the military. A family tradition I suppose. Then two of us went into law; one corporate; my choice was comunity law.

        My Father was a very senior ranking officer (Air Commodore), who at one point was in control of a well known squadron. he told me decades ago of the military role in protection of the community; both in combat, and in protection and crisis.

        I vividly recall a tornardo ripping the roof of the house once in Pakistan. The Gurkha’s came running to help us. One held my brother and myself under each arm and ran to safety.
        Was that their role, or should they have ignored the crisis, because it ‘wasn’t their job’?

        Your aggression is unwarranted, and is becoming a tad irritating. I know the military like the back of my hand; I was an Air Traffic Control Officer in Fighter Command.
        There is a pride to be taken in an assistive role, which is NOT seen by credible decent serving personnel as ‘shit’.

        The REAL exploitation of the military is to use them AGAINST the people, and not FOR the people. Just as Trev has said.

        I’m out of patience here. You want to discuss this further; then I’ll be back online domani.
        …….and btw; your response was equally ‘off topic’, but I’m sure YOU won’t let that stop you.
        I looking forward to a deep and meaningful exchange of views with you.

        TTFN.

        Reply ↓

        • I wrote my post at warp speed, before rushing out, hence the spelling mistakes. it didn’t help that I was bloody angry; funny that….
          ________________________________

          Trev; you have no need to justify yourself to anyone about what you do and /or don’t do. It for the owner of this blog to decide what is unacceptable or otherwise; – not a poster.
          keep up the good work, kiddo!

          Back tomorrow……………

          Reply ↓

      • On second thoughts Mike I will attempt to respond to your outburst.
        I wasn’t intending to criticize the army but those who are in charge of them, i.e. The Government. The very same Government who have troops on standby ready to crush any revolt when BrexShit hits the fan, but can’t deploy them to help in a civil emergency. The same Government who have cut spending on flood defence:

        https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2019/11/10/no-flooding-emergency-in-the-north-says-johnson-in-epic-campaigning-blunder/

        And, by way of bringing it full circle to this thread, the same Government who have cut Council funding resulting in the closure of womens’ refuges and a general worsening of the housing situation overall. They have single-handedly wrecked the Social Security system and introduced both the Bedroom Tax and Universal Credit, leaving many people unable to pay either their Council Tax or their rent. Homelessness has increased and poverty off the scale. It all boils down to one thing; Tory mis-rule.
        As I said, I wasn’t criticizing the army themselves, my own father served 9 years in the British Army from 1937 – 46, fought for his country and was wounded at Normandy. You criticize me for being unemployed and say I have a chip on my shoulder without even knowing me or my personal circumstances, yet you Mike come across as someone who may have anger management issues, perhaps it’s connected to your military career, I don’t know, maybe you are suffering from PTSD. I have often seen job vacancies asking for ex-Servicemen, saw one just the other day in fact, so perhaps you could get a job then you might not be so stressed out about buying a house with no money to pay the mortgage.

        Reply ↓

      • P.S.
        I do help others, I have been volunteering at a busy foodbank for two years. But unfortunately I do not have the capability to undertake civil engineering duties, even if such emergency deployment of civilians had been organized, as I do not have a Driving Licence, access to heavy plant, wagons, bulldozers or the ability to fly a helicopter, unlike the army who do and have the training in place for such operations.

        Reply ↓

    • I think it’s completely relevant Trev. The notion of people like us getting a job is almost a joke. We’d be very lucky, at our age, to get a job at all, especially if we ‘let slip’ that we know a thing or two. That doesn’t mean we don’t want to work, but it does mean that we demand that employers don’t take the piss. But with the true unemployment rate being three times the ‘official’ figure, and not enough vacancies to soak up that, there is little prospect that we’ll get a job unless it’s with a council, as they are usually more inclined to be proactive when it comes to implementing equalities policies and operating them fairly.

      Paradoxically almost, it could easily be argued that introducing a basic income could actually lead directly to the creation of jobs in a similar way that investing in building council houses and hospitals etc would. Give rich people money and it gets sent to the Cayman Islands, give poor people money, they go out and spend it on things they need and the odd luxury.

      If that £375 billion used to bail out the banks as ‘quantitive easing’ had been invested in building the infrastructure we need, the economy and the unemployment rate would both be much, much better – and the NHS and local councils, if they hadn’t had the unnecessary cuts would be in a much better state and delivering those vital services we all need instead of being up against it.

      Reply ↓

      • An unconditional income, not subject to terms and conditions or jobsearch requirements or deductions, would provide people with the freedom and flexibility they need to be able to do part-time or temporary jobs without any penalties.

        Reply ↓

    • Trev, you’re too damned polite! Stop apologising mate!! Everything you post here is relevant, and even if it is a bit off topic, (which it rarely is) as so much we discuss that appears to be ‘off-topic’ is actually related to topic in question, albeit only tangentally at times.

      Reply ↓

  29. Universal Credit and foodbanks in Yorkshire:

    https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/this-is-why-the-number-of-emergency-food-parcels-handed-out-in-yorkshire-has-risen-by-17-per-cent-1-10102611

    https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/lifestyle/universal-credit-branded-a-jaw-dropping-failure-as-investigation-shows-its-toll-in-yorkshire-1-9792935

    Trussell Trust is not the whole story:

    http://www.foodaidnetwork.org.uk/blog/new-figures-from-independent-food-banks-reveal-the-extent-of-emergency-food

    Reply ↓

    • Let’s hope we can wake up on Friday 13th December to the massive relief that we now have a Labour government. It seems that I’m voting Labour this time by default, as my usual choice, (which I vote for more out of desperation than anything else) is standing aside so that the LibDems have a clear shot. I’m hanged if I’m voting for the Yellow Tories though.

      I’d love to see Brexit junked, but I’ve got to the stage where I’m weary of it all, and besides, there is the Welsh independence movement, which though still only has a minority support, (but it has increased so that around 30% support it) could be boosted by both Brexit and also if Scotland decides to go indy. I think this will happen if we get another Tory government as things will become really grim.

      But, hey ho, let’s hope that people can overcome their moronic opposition to Corbyn, as even if you don’t like him, he’s got to be a million times more acceptable than the alternative – and that’s what this election is about; the least worst option, if people want to view it that way. Personally I think people need to take a step back and analyse some of the more bizarre and outlandish claims made about Corbyn, put him in context with other places in Europe, such as Scandinavia, where he wouldn’t look that out of place amongst even the more conservative of politicians. He just ain’t that radically left-wing, he’s actually more of a humanist!

      Reply ↓

  33. *Off Topic*

    It’s just struck me that there is something really lacking that could really put the breaks on those DWP job coaches who get carried away with their duties, (or conversely, who go beyond and show themselves to be caring human beings). There are sites where school students can rate their teachers, and these seemed to be quite popular, and where there were a range of opinions expressed – and through this it was possible to get an impression of the kind of teacher they were.

    Something similar is needed to rate DWP job coaches, and a range of opinions, which could be expressed anonymously, would give everyone an appraisal of the kind of person that particular job coach is – complete bastards would then be exposed, and the ones who exhibit humane and professional approaches could be encouraged and praised. People making comments could note if they’d been sanctioned by a particular job coach, thus building up a picture of who is towing the line of the DWPs hidden agenda etc.

    Hopefully we’ll have a half-decent government after 12th December, but I think we need to start thinking in terms of what if we end up with another 5 years of the Tories.

    Reply ↓

      • Hi Linda,

        I’m well aware that Labour isn’t utopia, (and I’d be worried if they were) and they are infinitely preferable to any alternative right at the moment I agree there is indeed little we can do to counter inhuman bastards wherever they are – crucially part of the little we can do is expose them and subject them to greater scrutiny.

        Reply ↓

    • The reason, that many don’t care is, the fact that job centres have closed, and everything moved online, so the civil servants who are employed, lose, hours, and pay. So there isn’t any sympathy.

      Reply ↓

  34. I understand what you are saying, but there is little sympathy because simple survival is the focus. It is close to impossible to have sympathy for those who have lost hours and pay, when your own focus is trying to pay the rent; the power; and wondering if you can afford a decent meal.

    Reply ↓

    • Regardless, those people just don’t care, in the past, they were more strict, perhaps with new claims they are quite strict.

      But since these offices have been closing, the people that are employed in them, have no care for anyone on benefit.

      Anyone can say that they have it difficult, not everybody who works at a benefit office lives in a council flat, some do. Which they are lucky, rents are high. People often are tribal, so somebody who is on welfare won’t see the other side that those people who work there, and vice versa. I seen that myself in the past.

      People who have worked in job centres going back years, think or have done, that it is peope’s attitude, who knows, I guess it more emotive prejudice. Some have worked too long, to understand being unemployed.

      Ultimately it is luck in reality. Chances and so on.

      I think eventually, the whole system will be online, and very few of the places left open with just a small amount of staff to deal with certain problems with claims.

      The good news in a lot of places, they are withdrawing the roll out of the Universal credit, where it has been put forward and people affected, a bit late.

      I have a feeling, this system may end up closing for good. It was a nice idea in theory, but too many years later, just turned out to be a poor program.

      Reply ↓

      • At my Jobcentre they are really pushing Universal Credit, focusing their efforts on those of us still on ‘legacy Benefits’ i.e. JSA, and desperately trying to convince us at group sessions that we would be better taking a part-time job and going on to UC. Few people are convinced. There’s hardly any staff left now for JSA, the majority of them have been trained and transferred to administering UC. It feels like it’s only a matter of time.

        Reply ↓

      • ”The good news in a lot of places, they are withdrawing the roll out of the Universal credit, where it has been put forward and people affected, a bit late.

        I have a feeling, this system may end up closing for good. It was a nice idea in theory, but too many years later, just turned out to be a poor program.”

        I wish to God that this were true Richard, I really do.
        This concept of ‘we took the right decision’ covers so many scenarios with bureaucracies.
        It can be as blatant as hell that (whatever the idea/concept), it is failing; it is NOT working; it is creating havoc; it is not saving, it is costing more…

        It makes no difference, they were RIGHT, so people are bruised, bloodied, and dead because of this system abuse.
        I cannot see any way out other than a legal challenge like the prorogation (sp?) one.
        It needs good human rights lawyers to fight the issue pro bono, because what is happening IS a breach of human rights.

        Society though has learned since Thatcher to think only of self, so those who are not directly affected don’t give a damn……….until they ARE affected.
        It’s despairing.

        Reply ↓

        • I remain hopeful Linda. The idea of Unconditional/Universal Basic Income won’t go away and I think I detect an air of inevitability about it. Brexit may prove to be the catalyst that necessitates the introduction of some form of Basic Income and the collapse of Universal Credit. Many people are likely to lose their jobs, many companies are likely to go bust, there will be more people looking for fewer jobs and the Benefits system (particularly UC) will be stretched to the limits and unable to cope. It’s already inherently dysfunctional and breaking point might be reached when Brexit happens. That’s what I’m thinking anyway, what my intuition tells me.

          Reply ↓

          • I don’t think that will change anything. The current date for uk implementation of the Universal credit is by 2024.

            It isn’t leaving the EU that could cause the change in this new benefit roll out, it is more the change in the employment sector that is, nine years ago, eight years back, Marks & Spencer introduced the self service, and Sainsbury’s did in 2012, and smaller stores have this, but complete roll out is probably going to be slow for a number of reasons, theft being one of them.

            The changes in the high street in the past two and a half years are the reasons why the Universal credit may eventually evolve into some sort of universal system. So a fixed monthly allowance, for claimants, and perhaps rolled out to all UK residents in time.

            That is a long way off, the latter than the former.

            Universal credit it from 2011, the idea, and the roll out began in 2013, so it is a bit dated.

            I don’t think many long term staff are ready for that kind of outlook. People are used to having a loaf of bread a week.

          • God Trev, I hope you’re right!
            I too have a niggling feeliing that it is going to kill itself.

            I only observe from the outside; you and so many are at the cruel mercy of it.
            I can’t even imagine what that must feel like; how did we let it get to this?

            Perhaps the only logic is that it’s so bad, -the only way is up. I bloody well hope so.

        • The meaning of Prime minister Thatcher’s words, were, that the individual and the family matter, society is second. I have read that for years, people mix it up.

          I

          Reply ↓

          • Peculiar. The individual and the family ARE society.
            Irrespective of what she said, or what she meant, Thatcher had a contempt for working class people. She seemed to punish them for not achieving what she was able to, whilst at the same time seeing them as having a serving role to the dictates of those she protected.
            I am happy to use the word hatred when it comes to Thatcher. And Blair.

          • Thatcher definitely said “there is no such thing as Society”, those exact words, in more than one interview.

  35. Mrs Thatcher made a point, because at the end of the day, we all live in a society, but priorities are always different. A person’s priority is themselves and their family before charity to anybody else. Her words are often taken out of context. She said this, but she also said that a person’s family is first.

    “they never quoted the rest. I went on to say: There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It’s our duty to look after ourselves and then to look after our neighbour. My meaning, clear at the time but subsequently distorted beyond recognition, was that society was not an abstraction, separate from the men and women who composed it, but a living structure of individuals, families, neighbours and voluntary associations.“

    https://iea.org.uk/blog/there-is-no-such-thing-as-society

    And the problem with the tired working class example is, there will always be those who no longer are working class, so how does that work out for those who can only pickup the trash of society and live in a council flat or post letters, now which requires people a license to drive.

    Blair won, because he spoke to the many who could do more in life.

    That is the problem with people, politics and class. There will always be the haves and have nots, our society is better than America, in America their attitude is nothing unless somebody works, and even then, tough luck attitude if it doesn’t work out, it is nasty.

    Reply ↓

    • First of all Trev (there’s no ‘reply’ thingy on your post).
      I have no doubt she said it; and as Richard has indicated she said more, and was quoted out of context, poor dear.
      I have little doubt also that when Pol Pot referred to ‘year one’ he too was quoted out of context.
      I have no doubt whatsoever though, on what both meant.
      ______________________________________________

      The ‘tired working class example’? Hmmmm, interesting.Those who are no longer working class are replaced throughout time by those who are. There will always be a working class; in fact more so nowadays because a large slab of society has been relegated to this by conservativism and Labour conservatism.

      Blair won because he allowed conservative thinkers to sanitise their belief by ‘being Labour’.
      Blair won by emulating Thatcher: Making those on the lower end of society (and your example acknowledges that), the cause of their situation, and deflecting any responsibility from those who even today, ensure they are kept in their place.

      There WILL always be the haves and the have nots, that is part of life. What should NOT be part of life in a healthy society, is to ensure this divide increases and is protected to ensure the haves are indulged, and the have nots are punished.

      Give it a little more time Richard; we ARE turning more and more to USA values, (Australia, which I know well, is ahead of us on that score; they are the US’ pet poodle).

      This is becoming interesting; look forward to further chat!

      Reply ↓

      • Blair was an example of somebody who was academically successful, he did more than one job in his life, and spoke to Middle England, and the working class voted for his party, the conservatives had been in for too long. Eighteen years is a long time.

        Just because several million are on welfare doesn’t mean others are or have, the narrative is, that reality is what anybody can do for themselves. That is what I have realised, I am young myself, thirty.

        Considering class is strong in England, it is unlikely, that some sort of working class exclusive outlook will emerge.

        There is no solution to deal with people who aren’t employable, have good skills, academics. I know the path myself.

        Reply ↓

  36. Blair was and is an utter shit. He was, as I said a sanitised conservative who led this country to a spurious invasion of another based on lies, and got some of his own countrymen killed in the process.

    You are thirty. You are a young idealist who is clearly of the view that ‘if I can do it; anyone can’.
    I am so saddened to see so many of you younger folk happily embrace the principle of self absorption, imposing their callous intolerance on others. You are a breed that have little understanding of the struggles of others, and you really don’t care because you can use your obvious intelligence to justify your views.
    I have to say that so many other in your general age group are not like that, as evidenced by the owner of this site.
    _______________________________

    One thing I do appreciate Richard is that you are prepared to respond, and have been open about your age (which prompts me to say that you have no real grasp of the Blair Witch other than what the Murdoch type press will tell you).
    I am also honest about my age………………………..I am…er, MUCH older and damned angry at what this junta is doing to its own people.
    At least they don’t pretend to be other than the scum that they are.

    The loathsome Blair is all the more odious for pretending to be something he was not. I rate the scumbag as worse than Thatcher-and that is really plumbing the depths.

    Reply ↓

    • No, you are the one that is older and still an idealist. I don’t represent them or you, if anything you only represent the past from you’re mindset.

      I don’t know what will change, but the working class who voted last year, won’t see many of their hopes hold out for long, but they voted for many reasons. I didn’t vote myself, my MP is Mr Corbyn. Another delusional guy who never understood the world of businesses, why was he not elected, because nobody in life lives on the dole for years, and or worked for a short time, and that was that.

      There is no answer for everything, it is like hoping the care system will be fine, and or the welfare will provide idealistically for all, nothing is ever completely right.

      It is like a libertarian in America when does having less government infringe on their personal freedom end at what point, the poor deserve nothing but charity. Sounds terrible.

      It is wishy washy, there is no puritanical politics, life is a mixed bag, and many fail, and some succeed. It is crappy.

      Reply ↓

      • Interesting post but a little hard to decipher. That’s sincere btw. I suspect you might be as tired as I am.

        You don’t get to 74 Richard and retain any ideals, specifically if life has thrown a few challenges, and that goes for most of us I think as we get older in this ‘you beaut’ society.

        You are surely aware that ‘most’ of the older age group have apparently become more conservative in their outlook. I would suggest that that has nothing to do with idealism, but shows a capacity to change to a philosophy that might be more beneficial to them. It’s the flexibility of opinion I’m referring to.
        That’s not idealism; that’s a self serving attitude, none of us are free of it you see.

        My mindset from the past? That seems to show that you see the values I hold as being old fashioned. That’s the thing that concerns me. Anything that shows any compassion for people who through no fault of their own, is considered passe now.
        People are responsible for their own situation, not Government decree. Thankfully a national daily today picked up on a story on just one victim-yes victim, of this brutality.
        Errol Graham a 57yo was found dead. He starved to death trying to deal with his own mental health issues I would suggest, directly caused by the process of apply for the brave new world of Universal Credit.
        He weighed 4 and a half stone, and had only two out of date cans of fish, no heating, no lighting.They were coming to evict him.
        What a loser eh?
        Was he responsible for his own situation; should he have ‘got with the programme’?
        Go to a website called Cradle to Grave: what a bunch of losers they are; all conveniently dead of course.

        ‘No puritanical politics’? Really? No far Right ideology?
        One of the saddest things for me is a young conservative.
        You can deny that but you reek of it. A survival of the fittest bloke.

        OK. Have to be away for a day or two, line up your posts and I’ll get back to you.

        Reply ↓

        • We don’t know his background, more often than not, it is people’s unlucky situation or choices they made that led to a path, and then life is full of chances, it is sad to see the world like that, but that is often happens. Life is hanging by a thread. Even Monarchy today is only here by accident, as well chance. The real Monarch is living in Australia, apparently was considered the actual monarch.

          You are trying to live in a utopia that doesn’t exist. Surely at you’re age you’d of let go of the idealism. I still have idealism, but it is chance, and luck, family that make somebody successful in life, their own ability too.

          Blair was better than the guy before him. Nobody should complain.

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          • The real Monarch is living in Australia eh?
            Oookkkkkk….

            ……….I’m dealing with a troll aren’t I Richard?

            Utopia? Idealist? Nah just oblivious to the fact that I was feeding a troll, who then gets worse..

            Have your last word: Elvis alive? Blair is Labour? Abducted by aliens?
            Make it a good one.

  37. Linda, just what do you expect from people?

    If one lives in a council flat, the employees who are employed for the council don’t always do their jobs properly, and then if somebody lives on an estate, people are always on the list down. Don’t you seem to get that?

    I live on an estate, and these places people who don’t live there or even the council staff, don’t see people on equal terms, you are living in a fantasy, at the end of the day, no system is perfect or person.

    Life is about what one can do to get out of a system they are in, and there aren’t guarantees. Low skilled or unskilled or many skills, high rents, council or both. Blair was better than his predecessor’s.

    And just how was nationalisation going to work? I don’t free web access was going to work, only to destroy somebody’s pension investment, and make other people unemployed.

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