Another perspective from outside Zone 1:

Posted below is a transcript from a recorded interview with Paul, 47. This interview was recorded in mid-January in Oldham.

This is a story about resentment. On one level or another, a lot of the interviews on this site are. I speak mainly with people who rely on social security systems. They have not thrived as attitudes towards people who receive benefits have hardened. You find a blistering anger a lot of the time. People say they resent government. They resent being patronised by the officers they must deal with in the social services bureaucracies they must use. They resent people who they perceive as activists, do-gooders and meddlers. They resent, poisonously, their lack of power over any of these things. As you would.

So. Anger.

Paul said he was on Incapacity Benefit (the benefit may have been the Employment and Support Allowance). He lives in a housing association flat in Ashton. He said he worked as a painter and decorator when he was younger. He receives his benefit for stress, anxiety and depression.

Paul doesn’t vote in general elections, but he did vote in the EU referendum. He voted Leave. He voted Leave, because he wants “proper border control… because [what we have ], it’s non-effective… I voted Brexit, because it is not about fundamentalism. It’s about not wanting to be taken over. It’s about the fear of being taken over, of being a foreigner in your own land…I feel a foreigner in my own land. Ridiculous, isn’t it…it’s a league of nations here.”

Paul resents this government – “the prime minister. She doesn’t live in the real world.” He dislikes the “patronising” left – “they have just bought into this philosophy – of all feel sorry for us.” He is angry about benefit sanctions and at people being forced to steal when their benefits are stopped – “it’s a shame that [people] have to burgle, because most of them have been sanctioned.”

I post this conversation, because it is one of many that I and others have with people on similar themes. I also post it because the views of people who rely entirely on benefits at this point in history should be recorded and heard. There’s a great deal of talk in the mainstream about (politically useful) Jams and Squeezed Middles and the rest, but I feel that we hear less from people who must exist completely in the system and who are not thought relevant because they don’t always vote, they don’t make money and they’ve been thoroughly dismissed as scroungers.

I often think there’s a feeling out there that if you ignore people who are already marginalised, they’ll ultimately go away. Actually, people don’t go away. They get angry:

“Leftwing liberalists, liberalism,” Paul said when I asked him what he thought was wrong with the world. “They have just bought into this philosophy – of all feel sorry for us…they buy into this philosophy of – “Oh, show a real caring heart, because they like to. They’re hell bent on patronising people, these liberal lefties. They don’t just want to patronise us. They want to patronise the foreigners as well.”

and:

“…the prime minister. She doesn’t live in the real world. Tony Blair, Gordon Brown [and] when it was a coalition – Clegg. He’s another one.”

I’d say this, too, just by the way. Stand Up To Trump coalitions and Pro-Europe marches can seem a very long way away when making and transcribing these interviews. That’s not to say Trump and Brexit should not be stood up to. They should be stood up to. It is simply to say that when you’re out and about, campaigns you see discussed all-out on Facebook seem a long way away.

We recorded the interview below in January at an Ark voluntary action lunch in Oldham. The Ark group puts on a free meal at the Salt Cellar each Tuesday. There’s the food, prayers, sometimes a bible reading, a thought of the day, music and, in the middle of the room, a popular pool table. People who are dealing with addiction, homelessness and other issues attend. It’s a social place. Paul travels to the Salt Cellar from Ashton each week by bus to meet and chat with others. I go along every few weeks to record interviews. People give their views on topics such as politics, benefits, sanctions, Brexit, immigration, work, housing, religion and sport.

Here’s Paul, 47, on 17 January 2017 at the Salt Cellar with his perspectives:

“[The big problem today] is leftwing liberalists, liberalism…. They have just bought into this philosophy – of all feel sorry for us. Feel sorry for us… gone too soft… [They] buy into this philosophy of, “Oh, show a real caring heart,” because they like to… they’re hell bent on patronising people, these liberal lefties. They don’t just want to patronise us. They want to patronise the foreigners as well. They are hell bent on patronising foreigners, because that’s how they get off. Their egos. It’s their personal own private egos, because they’re on an ego trip.

How does [the left] patronise?

Paul imitates. [Lefties say] “Oh, what a shame, isn’t it, I feel sorry for them [poor people], but we’ve got to keep in with the church, haven’t we. We got to create jobs for these people who are in these foodbanks. We’ve got to be seen to be doing something” – when really, it’s that personal fucking ego that’s driving all that. You know what I mean – sort of, “let’s integrate everybody into this big bubble.”

What does England need to do now? What are the problems?

Proper border control, because it’s non-effective [as it stands]. Continue reading →